Ok, couple hours of work in now. It's starting to take shape. Once again I am unhappy with the shape of the lips. I am also kind of frustrated, I feel like I have to do everything wrong at least once before I can figure out how to do it right. And once I figure out how to do it right; I later find out it's wrong as well. Grrrrrrrr!!!!:headbang: Anyway, here's an update. I'm taking a break. Cheers, Penguin