hey dave, thanks for that. :lmao: i m still laughing... nick, thanks for the links man. i downloaded both of them and i think they should make things a lot easier and faster for me. though, i am a bit of control freak and start panicking if something unpredictable happens, so it will take some getting used to. hey nextDesign, my knowledge of anatomy is zero. i think i have that loop now, but if i don't; can you maybe use my own image to show me?