wow thanks mmoore that cheered me up! i guess really its just trial and error i try to study other renders and work out how they achieved the look, and its best to work on just one or 2 parts of ure final piece and keep rendering it making small tweaks till ure happy. Thx the rest of u guys glad u like it, yeah the headphone jack is a lil small i think i will sort it out. want it totally right. the smoothing is a little off damn bevel!! but i can live with it. Matt yeah the shadow is a little grainy but i quite like the look of it actually, i did use raytraced shadows. i used 3 lights Mcflury plus a hdri.