Sorry I am at work at the moment and can not post one at the moment, I will try later when I'm home. Let me try to explain this a little better. Imagine you make a polygon cube, then you do nothing except rotate it slightly so its showing at an angle. Now, the edge, which was rotated now shows the little jagged line you get when you display any low res object at an angle on a PC. Now I presumed if I rendered this the little jagged edge would be smoothed out at a higher res, but it still shows, which makes the rendered image look like an old PC game object. There's definatly no hidden verts or anything on it.. I think its just me not understanding either the renderer correctly, or not having refined the model somehow. But the guy in my book goes from make the model, to "now render it and voila!" but misses the cruicial "how to render it and make the "its a model" effect go away"! Does this make more sense? I'll try and post something later to show you if I can't figure it out. Thanks for the response btw, you guys are so helpful to us newbies!