yeah I know you arent having a go mate Interesting, as its all swings and roundabouts, maya, lightwave and max use plugins to do various stuff so I think thats of moot point. Plugins are a necessary evil...though some more useful than others as is always the case. Workflow is laid out in my opinion...import, sculpt, paint, dismaps, export, - done Personally Ive always looked at Z as a complimentry package to the main hitters. Not as an entity by itself. Jay