I agree, I have a very fast machine but this does seem like overkill. I basically just want to create shadows that aren't just flat. The scene is a 3d robot that's walking on an un-made road so the surface is pretty uneven. I just wanted the shadows to bend over the surface matching exactly where things like pebbles and pot holes were. I guess I could model each piece but that just seems crazy when a bump/displacement map would be so much easier and more accurate. The scene is around 350 frames long. Cheers again for your help. Pete B