Well common sense would have told me not to do something complex by hand anyway, chances are you'd get shot if you were on a deadline LOL. When I mean poly smooth, I should have written modelling for subds not poly smooth as in add more polys to smooth LOL, Most of the time my output would be with a low res with a MR Approx node or Vray Subd and so on, so my geo will always be the lowest I can get away with. Of course as well if you set the geo up right in the first place you're payback is gonna always be better, regardless of it being a bevel or edgeloops for a humanoid character....its horses for course. I know this model is basic and for example purposes to explain bevels etc, but if that was a hero model for close up though I can guarantee the mesh would be pretty high in some cases...and the mesh smooth x2 would be fine anyway nice diagram...should show the wires too if you have it Jay