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# 1 18-08-2008 , 05:25 AM

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DO NOT CLICK, you must past into your address bar to view

https://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:NQ-UQU52qWkJ:https://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...nk&cd=42&gl=uk

i have to agree with the article, the UK is lacking universities that that teacch well run courses,

the university i went to was a pieace of crap, i wish i had kept my money, i learnt more from gnomon, digital tutors, simply maya, in a few months, then the entire 3 years i spent at university,

we need a "VANCOUVER FILM SCHOOL" like campus here in the UK,

Last edited by jali; 18-08-2008 at 07:07 AM.

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# 2 18-08-2008 , 08:04 AM

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Hehehe you start the school, I'll move over and tech =)

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# 3 18-08-2008 , 10:15 AM

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95%?! Thats actually pretty alarming, considering the price tags these institutions slap on those degrees.

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# 4 18-08-2008 , 10:31 AM

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Re: read this

Originally posted by jali
i have to agree with the article, the UK is lacking universities that that teacch well run courses

Originally Posted by

i thought that was only in auckland :p

i think those who are self taught (does this include using the aid of the video tutorials?) will gain a lot more skill than someone who has formal teaching. but someone with formal teaching will understand more than someone who is self taught... (undestand all the underlying theory the way it's meant to be)

they need a specialist school here other than Media Design School... which costs 8000-10,000 a year...

that's a "Ch" pronounced as a "K"

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# 5 18-08-2008 , 11:05 AM

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I believe someone who is self taught (and yeah this does include tuts) will most likely have a tougher time since you don't have to answer to anyone and so self discipline comes into play, uni students at least have some sort of guidance. I think it all comes down to how much you care about learning the subject. There are always people who will do the bare minimum to get by and that usually shows.

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# 6 18-08-2008 , 11:29 AM

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it's quite right, it does depend on how much you want to learn what you're doing

the 5% who hit the skills target probably wanted to learn. the other 95% would have had the whole "oh games are fun, it should be easy, i can do this sh*t" attitude to begin with then as soon as they got going it would have changed to "omg this sh*t is hard. wtf was i thinking coming here?!" or "hey this isn't what i expected. what the hell? why do i have to learn maths for computer science?!"

ah the classic statement of all losers in CS... "there's too much math"...

but the other thing with self taught is you really have to be extra motivated because there is no one pushing you with deadlines.

but i suppose programing the games AI, HCI, physics, and testing is a lot different to modelling, texturing, lighting, and animation where self taught and formal teaching is concerned.

...i'm wondering if what i said made any sense at all... i think i fell asleep whilst typing it...

btw, what's this doing in the WIP area? are we building a school? user added image

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# 7 18-08-2008 , 04:36 PM

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Originally posted by Chirone
it's quite right, it does depend on how much you want to learn what you're doing

the 5% who hit the skills target probably wanted to learn. the other 95% would have had the whole "oh games are fun, it should be easy, i can do this sh*t" attitude to begin with then as soon as they got going it would have changed to "omg this sh*t is hard. wtf was i thinking coming here?!" or "hey this isn't what i expected. what the hell? why do i have to learn maths for computer science?!"

ah the classic statement of all losers in CS... "there's too much math"...

but the other thing with self taught is you really have to be extra motivated because there is no one pushing you with deadlines.

but i suppose programing the games AI, HCI, physics, and testing is a lot different to modelling, texturing, lighting, and animation where self taught and formal teaching is concerned.

...i'm wondering if what i said made any sense at all... i think i fell asleep whilst typing it...

btw, what's this doing in the WIP area? are we building a school?

Originally Posted by

MY BAD, i didn't realise i posted it in the WIP, can someone move it to the right place,

Chirone i have to argue against what you said i wentt to university wanting to learn, because games and animation have always been my passion,

but my damn lecturers were to god damn lazy to teach us anything, most of the people i talked have a grudge against the guy who was meant to me teaching us Maya,

schools like vfx put british universities to shame,

while i was doing my internship at a well known animation studio,
the guys there told me the only reason these cg artistist get teaching jobs is because they dont have enough skill to get into the industry,

Last edited by jali; 18-08-2008 at 04:39 PM.

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# 8 18-08-2008 , 05:05 PM

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Originally posted by jali
while i was doing my internship at a well known animation studio,
the guys there told me the only reason these cg artistist get teaching jobs is because they dont have enough skill to get into the industry,

Originally Posted by

Hmm, that is something I never considered...those guys seem to be right.
Just a question if anyone knows, would Natcol be a good idea to start of to build up to things like getting a job in the industry/starting up a career in CGI stuff?
Some guy showed me his demoreel at a career's expo, and it looked like a great place since he said that most people there have the equivalent skill, if not more.

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# 9 18-08-2008 , 05:39 PM

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Originally posted by jali
Chirone i have to argue against what you said i wentt to university wanting to learn, because games and animation have always been my passion,

Originally Posted by

my bad, too... i forgot about the crappy lecturers who are unorganised or don't know their stuff

and amoeba, you should look at media design school too.

considering what jali just said, you should definately check out what the schools say about their graduates and what they have gone onto doing.

i remember seeing an article somewhere a few years back where some graduate from MDS landed a job in Japan

i've never actually known what natcoll does....

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# 10 18-08-2008 , 06:17 PM

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It's an emerging industry (in uni terms) so its cobbled together rarther than "made for", needs development, but the problem is that theres not money to develop stuff.

Might set one up on my own.

"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle

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# 11 18-08-2008 , 06:19 PM

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Ok, i think i have a different stance on this.

I dont like being taught software, I know VFS does very well but they can also pick whoever they want to come on their course, do not underestimate the difference that makes to their end production. The same applies to bournmouth in this contry.

If i where going to university (again), i would pick somewhere which had the strongest artistic tutorship.

When i did my degree, it was this guidance that made me improve 10 fold. My technical knowledge was completley secondary, if you want to learn how to press buttons save a few grand and go to escape studios, they will do it far better than most places.

Learning maya is all about practice,

the 5% who hit the skills target probably wanted to learn. the other 95% would have had the whole "oh games are fun, it should be easy, i can do this sh*t" attitude to begin with then as soon as they got going it would have changed to "omg this sh*t is hard. wtf was i thinking coming here?!" or "hey this isn't what i expected. what the hell? why do i have to learn maths for computer science?!"

Originally Posted by

I think this is especially important in animation, no matter how good the teacher it requires a huge amount of follow through on the pupils behalf, and seriously dont expect the best maya teachers in the world at university. When looking at universities, base your decision on the stories you see and the artisitc skills in the showreels, the technical side is usually self taught.

I think that article is very specific to game design courses though, animtion courses are far less dire. I have a few friends who are / have done game design courses and they seem quite bad from what i can see.

There is a huge article about this in 3d world this month user added image

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# 12 18-08-2008 , 06:35 PM

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Well said Laurie, Chrone your right with your comment about

"the 5% who hit the skills target probably wanted to learn. the other 95% would have had the whole "oh games are fun, it should be easy, i can do this sh*t" attitude to begin with then as soon as they got going it would have changed to "omg this sh*t is hard. wtf was i thinking coming here?!" or "hey this isn't what i expected. what the hell? why do i have to learn maths for computer science?!"

Theres so many students that have that attitude, getting a degree is easy (so to speak), just do the work, getting a good degree is a challenge, you need to put in the study outside of what your tought..

as I said I might set up my own!

"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle

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# 13 18-08-2008 , 08:14 PM

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heh, not to sound arrogant or anything, but i know i'm right :p

i've been a marker and tutor, and you can see and hear (body language and actions) what students are thinking. although it's a fair bit easier when they explicitly say stuff in the feedback they have to give for the assignments

even though i was only a marker for programers and am a tutor for them too, i'm fairly certiain that it applies to all disciplines

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# 14 18-08-2008 , 10:32 PM

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Me too Chrone, in a multitude of different subjects at BSc level

"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle

Last edited by gster123; 18-08-2008 at 10:34 PM.

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# 15 19-08-2008 , 04:43 AM

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I studied graphic design at college for 4 years, and could find no work after. Mainly because it was and still is a flooded market. Some time after college and teaching myself traditional animation techniques I went to a convention in London called 3decmeber. It was here I discovered Maya and was blown away with what was being created with it.
I have been teaching myself ever since and although it can be a real nightmare when you get stuck it does feel great when you manage to solve problems yourself. That said I am lacking in many areas where had I of gone to Uni I would have a much better understanding of things and probably more chance of finding work.
I have looked for uni's here in the U.K. that teach Maya but having had bad experiences with courses in the past I cant help but feel that I am better off keeping motivated and teaching myself.

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