2 Effects that are easy on concept but f***** hard to make look right on practice....

I´ve been toying with particles, paint effects and fluids for some time to make those look right but even if i manage a point where they are lookable without eyestrain i would bang the keyboard with my head when comparing with:

Fire on the quality of, lets say, "independance day" or the caroche jeans ad; or if it cant be, i would happily settle in a gamelike quality as seen on "wings of fire" "startrek eliteforce2" or "call of duty"

And water... water on the quality of the pirelli or xara ads.

So if anyone knows webs with very high quality images of those and/or tutorials on the same vein i would appreciate him to post a link here so we can elaborate and discuss on how to reproduce those results