Miscellaneous problems due to severe case of newbism

# 1 29-12-2004 , 02:48 AM

Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 30

Miscellaneous problems due to severe case of newbism

I'm looking for a place that contains hints to help new users when tutorials go wrong or don't cover some mysteries. Tutorials generally give a sequence of steps, but often skip some of the important underlying philosophy of how the tool is structured. Examples of what I'm looking for or have looked for in the past:

Merge vertices on two objects isn't merging the vertices. (Tutorial from UT2K4 bonus DVD)
"Keep faces together" is buried in the Polygons->Tool Options rather than living on the extrude options dialog, and the help doesn't mention this.
Duplicate object (copy paste hasn't done anything as far as I can tell)
Mirror geometry apparently doesn't have an option to mirror around an axis, so I tried to merge vertices to something that *would* mirror on the axis, but as noted above that hasn't been successful.
At some point I'm going to need to animate the figure (for UT2K4), and I never figured out how to confidently manage clips.

I suspect much of this knowledge isn't collected in a place or two, but I'd rather start with something like that where I can look up the answer and possibly get it right away than ask a question here and another there and wait for some kind soul to get a chance to post a reply.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Quote

# 2 29-12-2004 , 03:04 AM

Subscriber
Join Date: Jun 2003

Location: stuck in the 90's boston, USA

Posts: 1,871

Re: Miscellaneous problems due to severe case of newbism

Originally posted by Mooseboy

, but I'd rather start with something like that where I can look up the answer and possibly get it right away than ask a question here and another there and wait for some kind soul to get a chance to post a reply.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by

yea, the manual is the answer. it comes with maya.
all you have to do is type a keyword in the search field,
and voila user added image

Image dump

Quote

# 3 29-12-2004 , 01:23 PM

Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 30

Unfortunately, RTFM isn't enough because I have PLE, and the help system that comes with that is, I suspect, more limited than what would be in the manuals you'd get with the full blown edition. Like I said, the documentation I have doesn't bother to mention that little bit about "keep faces together" in the extrude help. A great deal of the PLE help merely regurgitates what's obvious from looking at the screen or dialog you're interested in. Unfortunately, that's typical for software documentation, and the company I work for is no exception.

Which is why I'm here asking about supplemental resources.

Quote

# 4 29-12-2004 , 01:53 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Jun 2003

Location: stuck in the 90's boston, USA

Posts: 1,871

Originally posted by Mooseboy
Unfortunately, RTFM isn't enough

Originally Posted by

i did not say "RTFM" i said use the manual to search for answer quickly instead of waiting for users to reply.

Originally posted by Mooseboy

because I have PLE, and the help system that comes with that is, I suspect, more limited than what would be in the manuals you'd get with the full blown edition.

Originally Posted by

the PLE has as i suspect the same contents as the regular manual, plus more online resources from alias, and they have a mentoring program where you can ask for help "live"
why would alias ship a "learning edition" without a way to "learn" the edition. the manuals are the same, just search harder. i assure you the regular manuals dont have a magick answer button that displays the perfect answers, searching is just as difficult.

Originally posted by Mooseboy

Like I said, the documentation I have doesn't bother to mention that little bit about "keep faces together" in the extrude help.

Originally Posted by

no it's there.
also check under the Polygon>keep new faces together option menu help
and see what it says.

Originally posted by Mooseboy

Which is why I'm here asking about supplemental resources.

Originally Posted by

suplplemental resources are at your finger tip,

use the search feature of this forum or others forums,
google, learningmaya.com etc...

maya is a very old program, so needless to say, any "noobie'ish question has been asked 100's of times and answered 1000's of times.
good luck in your learning process. :tup:

Image dump

Quote

# 5 29-12-2004 , 04:52 PM

Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 30

no it's there.

Originally Posted by

True enough. Everything else in that section of the documentation references inputs that are on the extrude face options dialog, but the extrude help doesn't mention that the control lives elsewhere. It's as though it might be a feature that was omitted from PLE. Not very intuitive...

I waited until after I'd spent many hours searching for information on the web and in the documentation that came with PLE before posting to this forum because, as you say, I figure all my questions have been asked and answered before. In fact, the web is where I came across the nugget about where "keep faces together" lives.

So I guess I'll continue with this approach for a while.

Thanks for the advice.

Quote

# 6 30-12-2004 , 09:26 AM

Subscriber
Join Date: May 2004

Location: Denmark

Posts: 816

Don't let Vlad get you down, it's probably just Stewie raging user added image

But seriously, don't be afraid to ask for help if you have problems in the future, but it should probably be if there's something project specific that doesn't do what it's supposed to... If it's just explanation or basic stuff about how tools work, try using the manual first, or check out some of the free tutorials here at SM...

Quote

# 7 02-01-2005 , 02:52 AM

Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 30

If it's just explanation or basic stuff about how tools work, try using the manual first, or check out some of the free tutorials here at SM...

Originally Posted by

I realize you're not saying this in support of the methodology, and you're just offering suggestions for how to wade through the system. As one might expect, I do both things you suggest, and continue having problems (especially when the tut links are broken). As I scan various forums I see that I'm not the only one in this position, and I also see that sometimes their questions go unanswered because no one else can figure out what's going on, either. And I also see that the people having problems are familiar with the concepts of modelling, so it's not like they're so green they need to be told what a UV or a normal is and haven't the vocabulary to understand most of what's in the manual.

I keep getting stymied by bizarre things like this which, if they're covered in the HTML help they're covered in a way that's difficult to dig up using links or search topics. Perhaps experts who are already familiar with the system and Maya's terminology (for things which have other names in other systems) can find things faster, but new users aren't so lucky.

The manual is a directed graph, like all HTML documents, and as a result you can't just open it up to a section devoted to the topic you're interested in. The info is scattered about in various sections and it's hard to mine the data. "Just search harder" doesn't cut it when you're trying to get something done, when each trivial step takes hours because the information in the manual is disorganized or incomplete.

Yes, I'm ranting, but as a 20 year veteran of the software industry I am aware of the ease with which this kind of situation can be rectified. It doesn't have to be this way and it shouldn't be this way. Alias is dropping the ball, big time.

Quote

# 8 02-01-2005 , 03:50 AM

Subscriber
Join Date: Jun 2003

Location: stuck in the 90's boston, USA

Posts: 1,871

Originally posted by Mooseboy
I keep getting stymied by bizarre things like this which, if they're covered in the HTML help they're covered in a way that's difficult to dig up using links or search topics. Perhaps experts who are already familiar with the system and Maya's terminology (for things which have other names in other systems) can find things faster, but new users aren't so lucky.

Originally Posted by

i have to agree to this to some degree. especially with ppl whom english is not their native tongue. [like me]

Originally posted by Mooseboy

The manual is a directed graph, like all HTML documents, and as a result you can't just open it up to a section devoted to the topic you're interested in. The info is scattered about in various sections and it's hard to mine the data. "Just search harder" doesn't cut it when you're trying to get something done, when each trivial step takes hours because the information in the manual is disorganized or incomplete.

Originally Posted by

i have to disagree with this, the docs in maya 6 are classed in 2 tabs, one that displays tuts, and one that displays definition of the terminology and functions of the tools, [and the color coded in orange and ble bold fonts to depict whats a tut and whats adefinitions or explainations.] by telling you "searching harder", i'm not condecending you in anyway, just search the things that might seem remotely close to your topic.

Originally posted by Mooseboy

Yes, I'm ranting, but as a 20 year veteran of the software industry I am aware of the ease with which this kind of situation can be rectified. It doesn't have to be this way and it shouldn't be this way. Alias is dropping the ball, big time.

Originally Posted by

funny, the best training materials are third party training materials. the stuff alias or discreet, or newtek release always seem to be lacking.
the good tuts or training are found from dvd tuts or online vids or specific books.
after 20 years in the biz, you should know that. and i doubt this will change much.

but this is just stewie ranting user added image

we all started somewhere, beleive me im not trying to be rude. just saving you some time waiting on the forums for ppl to answer, when u may be able to find it on your own, which is more rewarding imo.
user added image

take care and happy new yr.

Image dump

Quote

# 9 02-01-2005 , 02:20 PM

Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 30

i have to disagree with this, the docs in maya 6 are classed in 2 tabs, one that displays tuts, and one that displays definition of the terminology and functions of the tools

Originally Posted by

Hmm. I'm using PLE 5. Perhaps things are different in PLE 6.

the good tuts or training are found from dvd tuts or online vids or specific books. after 20 years in the biz, you should know that. and i doubt this will change much.

Originally Posted by

Actually, my development experience is not in this type of software. Though I've been paid for visual effects work, it was before high quality CG was affordable - it was all miniatures, stop motion, in-camera compositing, that sort of thing. I've worked on material handling systems, motion control for commercials and movies, small business accounting, and various other types of projects. As a result, I've worked with many different software packages, some of which were provided by whatever company I was working for at the time. Documentation has always been a mixed bag, some good, some icky. But there's always been good documentation out there, so I'm not resigned that this must be the way things are.

And despite all my grumpiness, don't get me wrong - I do appreciate the advice you folks have given me.

Quote

# 10 02-01-2005 , 07:27 PM

Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 12

Best thing you can do is go out and buy a book for maya, I got "The complete referance for Maya 6"

I havn't done much but from reading parts of it so far it's a good book that will really help people out, I wouldn't bother downloading it either you really need to buy these books as you'll want to read them then try stuff out later on etc and downloading a PDF and trying search it or read through it is only bad time wise and bad for your eyes.

In this book it says every tool is doco'd in the manual for maya but the manual won't tell you how to use the tools together, so while you can read up on how the merge vertices tool works, but it won't tell you that you probably need to merge the 2 objects together first then you can use the vertices tool.

As the vertices tool will proabbly only work on 1 object not 2 at the same time.

So if your going to only use the manual you'll need to look up merge vertices and merge objects as well to get the whole idea of how things work.

This vertices tool is shown in the cartoon dog tut video even on 2 objects but the ojects are always merged together first.

These tutes and tutes videos are ok, but they don't give you the in-depth tool use that you'd need if you a really new to the program.

And that's the real reason for the stumbling blocks.

Quote

Miscellaneous problems due to severe case of newbism

Re: Miscellaneous problems due to severe case of newbism

Posting Rules Forum Rules

Similar Threads

Topics

Free Courses

Full Courses

VFX News