poly normal face prob' i think

# 1 27-07-2007 , 01:46 PM

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i am modeling a fairy (playing with Blenders "Makehuman" and then trying to modify) adding the wings and tail ... i am having lots of trouble with the wings and am woundering if it is because they are just one plane thus the faces are either one side or the other but not both ???

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# 2 27-07-2007 , 01:51 PM

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thought maybe make it clear

here is a picture of subdivision attempt

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# 3 27-07-2007 , 07:29 PM

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I think that it might be that the sepperate parts of the wings are not merged together, so when its going to sub div its rounding it off. Have a check to see.

Hope it helps

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# 4 27-07-2007 , 10:25 PM

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thanks for quick responce

yeh but, while that was a problem, i corected it, Maya still wont subdivide it ... when i try to subdivide in SILO, it gives me this ... (PS the yellow model above was from SILO but MAYA does that too and for the same reason)

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# 5 28-07-2007 , 02:23 AM

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is it currently rigged or just modeled into a pose?

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# 6 28-07-2007 , 06:50 PM

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it is just moulded into position

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# 7 29-07-2007 , 02:34 AM

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When I've seen this happen in Maya before, it's usually because I've applied the smooth, took its divisions to 0 (essentially unsmoothing it), doing some more work, then raising the divisions back to 1 to smooth it again. This usually won't work due to the changes made to the geometry from the time I applied the smooth. If I apply a fresh new smooth, though, it works fine.

not sure if this helps your situation

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# 8 29-07-2007 , 04:42 PM

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played with a few ideas

I tryed the smooth thing but to no avail so I tried to retrace my steps stripped out all of the wing surface and re extruded then using extrude edge and then merge vertex ... at some point as i worked half the normals flipped .. so I had to set normals to face ... now tho when i try to subdivide to check how I am going Maya tells me to run clean with nonmanifold switched on ... how ever when i try this random verticies split see attached

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# 9 29-07-2007 , 07:36 PM

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Let's go Normal hunting with Matt. This is imho the fastest way to chase down finicky normals.

Step 1: To eradicate them we must quickly find them.
In the panel, goto Lighting tab and uncheck Two Sided Lighting, like so:

Now any faces with normal problems will appear in black. Sweet.

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# 10 29-07-2007 , 07:41 PM

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Next step we will eliminate them.

The first thing to try is select the offending faces, and in the menu go Polygons->Normals->Reverse

If the face(s) are still black, we have to use brute force. This is often the case with imported objects and mixed applications. To do this, again in the menu, goto Polygons->Normals->Set Vertex Normals, Option box

You will see this:

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# 11 29-07-2007 , 07:44 PM

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Here comes the important part.

First we must lock the offending normals, before they can be unlocked. Bit of a mindbender I know, but this will kill them once and for all.

So, Select the problematic faces, Set the Vertex Normal to lock normals and hit apply.
Re-select the offending faces if the selection got lost, and now do the same step with the Unlock Normals optionbox checked, and hit apply.

Now you can invert and manipulate the normals to your hearts content and the problem should hopefully be but an agonizing memory.

That's it really. Hope it helps, so you can move on to the more fun stuff user added image

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# 12 29-07-2007 , 07:52 PM

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This post I will show you an example setup for cleanup. I typically get weird results too using this strange tool. Auto anything is not so good in my experience and doing it manually seems faster and more accurate.

However, sometimes an automatic cleanup is necessary and I have found that I get the least amount of problems if I leave the tesselate geometry checkboxes unset. Like so:

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# 13 30-07-2007 , 04:57 PM

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thanks heaps for your time AlphaFlyte

all good but i already have the 2 sided lighting set to on in the above example user added image

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# 14 30-07-2007 , 07:09 PM

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As I stated in the post, To find offending normals, it should be set to off. When you are done you can either set it back or leave it off. Doesn't hurt really.

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# 15 31-07-2007 , 06:58 AM

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sorry not reading

will have another go ... I actualy did a re start and instead of extruding an edge I have extruded a face it behaves much better i just checked as you have instructed and guess what they are all inside out flipped them and here we go

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