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# 31 29-07-2008 , 02:38 AM
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i'm sorry - i still haven't heard a decent defense of the ending, which i thought let down a pretty good movie.

i'm not against gotham thinking batman is bad / not the hero they thought he was - that's the whole point - he's supposed to be on the edge - i think it would be cool if he was a bit more psychotic as jsprogg suggested. i just don't think that they did a good enough job making it work.

we had a governor in New York called elliott spitzer (also a former DA) who was considered a public crusader until he was forced to resign earlier this year, after it was found out that he had spent $80,000 on a high class hooker over the last ten years. i'm pretty sure nolan was looking at spitzer for dent's character. would it have been better if spitzer's replacement had said, 'we should preserve his memory - we must not let the public know about the $80,000 hookers'? no, of course not. that would be stupid. that's the point: people don't 'turn' bad. there's no such thing as good and evil, hero or villain. we all have the capacity under the right circumstances. to reduce it to that just cheapens the film.

as you may have noticed, i'm not a film maker, but i think it would have worked better if two face (yeah - i hate it when a major character is created and then killed half an hour later) had been created at the end, due to some action by batman, rather than them copping out and saying, 'we'll just say he did - cos the city needs a hero'....? blagh blagh blagh...

i think that it would have made a better ending and created a bigger buzz for the next film if it was the crazy ****ed up chaotic joker and the crazy ****ed up 'justice' of two face and gotham city itself after batman for killing dent.

alright, sorry for the long post and thinking too much. user added image


Last edited by arran; 29-07-2008 at 02:41 AM.
# 32 29-07-2008 , 02:48 AM
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The main area why I think they did well with two-face is because if you look at how the story transitions from Batman Begins to the Dark Knight, in Batman Begins, Bruce(Batman) become the face of justice in Gotham. As they elude to often in the DK, Batman could not do this forever, nor would he possibly want to.

The people of Gotham need a hero with a face to know that all is not lost. And while Dent turned out to be a bad example, he is the first hero with a face for Gotham. I can't really defend why he was written to die in this movie, but I think the role that was created for him fit the need. I still say he is/was a victim and that if you kill him now, or kill him in another movie, his fate is the same.

You can't show Gotham that their "white knight" has done all these terrible things after their prisoners and 300 odd other citizens chose NOT to blow each other up.

If you lay out the news that Rachel and Harvey were killed by the same violent criminal then things tie themselves off to those who don't know what happened.

As I've ranted on before I think that the way things progressed in this movie, things are tied off neatly enough that there is no significant need to create a new movie. At the same time (with hollywood today) there is enough to create a new film and not have to worry about Heath not being around to participate. And with any other villian you could place in a new movie (Two-face is a victim remember, not a villian) they all seem to spawn from this slow point or a similar like spot in the Batman story.

Two-face only had one beef to his death, and that was making those who caused him so much pain, feel the pain which he suffered. Beyond the scope of trying to do that what other possible good could he do as a villian?


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# 33 29-07-2008 , 03:02 AM
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as i said - reducing it to good and evil / hero and villain just doesn't make sense to me and just dumbs it down.

and two face wasn't a victim - he didn't punish those who caused him pain - he held a gun to a 9 year old kid and threw him off a bridge - i don't remember gordon's son doing anything to him? do you? he didn't even go after the joker! so that doesn't make any sense.

and the thing on the boats was just stupid. yeah, cos they wouldn't have blown up the other boat? come on! and no one would have jumped off the boat if someone told you that they were going to blow it up even if you did? of course someone would have. that's the first thing people would do. it just takes one and then panic.

anyway. user added image

# 34 01-08-2008 , 10:03 AM
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haha I dunno arran, I'm sure we could debate these things back and forth all day.
Can't change what happened in the movie so its all good.
I loved it, and can go on talking about it all day lol.

I went in saw it again today for the third time.... in theaters. LOL
I think I've watched it like 10 times total.
I'm in love.


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# 35 01-08-2008 , 06:38 PM
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LOL, the comments are getting way deep man, I think at the end of the day is just see it as a good movie, it has to shift from A -Z to get itself completed, regardless of any holes that it may have that weakens it from a plot point of view, and it will play on your mind too much LOL.

I'd like to just ask, apart from JSPROGG, does anyone here actually read Batman from the comics? Im a regular reader of Batman Legends plus stuff from the 70s, so I kind of understand a few of the comments here and also the changes with characters within the movie itself.

I think JSPROGG is absolutely right in his comments that 'Bats' needs to be more psychotic, and a schitzo because thats what he is, he's also a 'Two Faced' character plus he should be more in that vein of when he's beating the crap out of the Joker in the Police interogating room.

I would like to see the next movie (if there is one) actually be called the Dark Knight Returns, especially now The Batman is on the run. And have it based on the same graphic novel done by Frank Miller. Not from an aged point as in the dark Knight returns story but just from a story point, and minus Superman and Robin.

my 10pence...

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# 36 01-08-2008 , 08:05 PM
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i watched the TV series regiously as a kid.., 7-10.., something like that.., as for comics.., i read all of them and not just batman.., this was before mobile phones and computers.

sort of campish some say.., as a child i never noticed that,

as for dumbing down?? no.., just structure.., every story needs it.., dont look at it that way.., every story since they began had structure.., its the best way to deliver info succinctly and in a way easily understood, same as an image.., same thing.., same as a song user added image


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# 37 01-08-2008 , 10:00 PM
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i watched the TV series regiously as a kid.., 7-10.., something like that.., as for comics.., i read all of them and not just batman.., this was before mobile phones and computers.

Same here Mirek, I was around before mobiles and computers too!! and somedays it feels like before Jesus was invented too LOL

Jay

# 38 02-08-2008 , 04:33 AM
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The movie was ok, but Heath was great. I was surprised by how good his acting was. Batman's raspy voice kinda made me annoyed, I could barely understand him some times. One thing that I really hate about the movie is that after the movie, everyone is trying to say "why so serious" like the joker, because they think its funny. It was funny in the movie, but not when a teenager says it! haha. but yeah, it was good enough


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# 39 02-08-2008 , 06:14 AM
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jay, those were the days, when three people met at a coffee shop and talked.., to each other, rather than to someone else on their mobiles.

man, i dug that show on TV, makes me wonder now what they did for effects?? now i recall the old, walk up the side of the building trick.., ect user added image however.., they made it work.., i guess amongst the characters there was some room for, as the say, 'suspension of disbelief.'


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# 40 02-08-2008 , 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by mirek03
jay, those were the days, when three people met at a coffee shop and talked.., to each other, rather than to someone else on their mobiles.

man, i dug that show on TV, makes me wonder now what they did for effects?? now i recall the old, walk up the side of the building trick.., ect user added image however.., they made it work.., i guess amongst the characters there was some room for, as the say, 'suspension of disbelief.'

While I may only be 21. it pisses me off to no end that people would rather text, facbook, myspace, or call from cell to cell then actually talking face to face these days.
I held out on the whole cellphone deal as LONG as I could and frankly I am trying to phase it out. When this contract is up I want to be rid of this stupid thing. Anywhoo, different thread lol.

I watched the Adam West show all the time. I know it was re-runs by the time I got to it, but I got home day at the Same Bat Time and tuned into the same Bat Channel and let me tell you, to this day I love that stuff.
As for trying to compare it to the Nolan's take on Batman, I don't think it can be fairly done. Like comparing apples to oranges, or Batman to Spider man... ok well the movies I can surely say that Batman is better haha.
I believe side effects for the show were done similar to the Original Star wars (frame of reference although I believe the Adam West Batmans started before starwars)
Walking up the side of the building, is a nice fake building on the ground, camera turned sideways, and a whole lot of fans blowing the Cape "down" to the ground.


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