Does Maya Have A "Thicken" Tool? - Page 2 - Simply Maya User Community

# 16 17-11-2011 , 04:19 PM

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Jay: no pixar subd's are more then just catmull-clark. That is just a method of subdividing a surface. I cannot think of a single package that does not use CC as it's subdivision method. The pixar subd's in modo are more then just CC. The creasing works far better and is far more polygon efficient. Also, Modo's subd tool set is far more complete. Maya's subd tool set in a word is horrible. Maya's subd creasing is very limited compared to Modo's. One gross example is - you send hours creasing your model and then realize you need to make a change to the base polygon cage and what happens? You lose all you creasing information when you convert back to polygons. This one limitation alone makes Maya's subd's almost unusable. In modo you can flip back and forth without losing all you creasing. Also in Modo you crease by percentage. It is very accurate. In Maya it's either full crease or a number of partial creases each one simply doubling the last which is wasteful and imprecise.

With Max I am talking about the base package which now includes the graphite plugin tools. I am not aware of any third party plugins required to out perform maya, particularly for hard surface modeling (read more precise pivot, vert, edge, and face control). I believe you heard about this from the poor slob you assigned to running for coffee in your last gig that constantly complained about maya for it's lack of hard surface modeling abilities.

The thing you mention about stuff being under the hood I also have talked about in that you can write a specialized plugin or script to do about anything in maya. Just the average user does not have the skills and unless you are working for a studio that has deep pockets and can hire programmers to write these proprietary scripts or you can afford commercially available plugins like Nex you are boned. Also, those studio plugins are tightly guarded and proprietary. I don't count features that most do not have access too when I am comparing apps. All be it this is one main reason maya is an INDUSTRY love child. It can be made to be and do almost anything you want. But as before in your last gig that production house apparently did not have plugins to bring maya's hard surfacing abilities up to Max. Also, all these special plugins require you to first know they exist and second learn how to use them. With max and modo all the stuff I am talking about is already there and standardized.

When I am comparing modeling tools, I am comparing out of the box ready to use stuff. Not propietary scripts and plugins. Take the thing I use the most in Modo - bacground constraints - these allow me to make a surface "live" in maya terms. The difference is I can simply push another surface into the constrained surface and the verts stick. In Maya you have to fidget with the camera angle and manually jiggle each individual vert to get them to stick to the live surface! If you have ever done this with any sizable surface you know what a pain it can be. I actually had to stop for a day because my wrist started hurting and I was nearly insane from the tedium.

Can a script be written to do it the Modo way. Probably yes, and in some studio some place it probably has. Can I write one or 99% of the artists that just use maya as a tool to model? Probably not.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 17-11-2011 at 04:33 PM.

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# 17 17-11-2011 , 04:33 PM

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If you export the Pixar Sd, with edge weights does it drop it like maya does?

Indeed Im aware of the type of algorythms etc, I just kind of figured that the Pixar Sd was the CC one. Hence Ed Catmull/Jim Clarkes involvement -thought it had had a rename or something LOL.

I dont really have an interest in Max as such, but the guys I supervised in Ireland all had max backgrounds and kept asking for this plugin or that plug 'just like max' so....

I nearly bought modo a few years back because of the insane prices and lack of forward thinking in Mayas dev

Jay

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# 18 17-11-2011 , 04:44 PM

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I am not sure whether the pixar subd creasing is maintained when you export. But I thought that I read they were. Which was another reason they turned my head. I will go check though and get back to you.

I am sure there are plugins for max but in my comparision, based on actually using both, I don't use plugins. In fact I tend to try and avoid them. Mainly from a bad experience I had getting used to one for Maya that all of a sudden was no longer supported when Maya was updated, which back when that happened once every couple of years was not a bad thing but now maya is updated nearly 4 times a year it seems. I do not like being held hostage by a plugin.

As for Max I don't really like it either. I started out in entertainment industry style modeling using Max and was more interested at the time in organic modeling. When I switched to Maya I felt and still feel that Maya is better suited to organic modeling. The tools really do make a difference between hard surface and organic modeling and and I think Maya is better at organics and max is better at hard surface.

As a possibly interesting side note: I was a surface modeler and finite element analysis engineer (both linear and non-linear) for more then 20 years. This is all mostly hard surface G3+ continuity stuff. So when I started dabbling in entertainment style modeling I was more interested in organics. Started with Max and switched to Maya. I worked for SGI at the time during jurasic park and terminator movies and was hooked.

However you all notice now that I focus once again mostly on hard surface. I made the decision to switch back to HS when the sculpting packages appeared zbrush and mudbox and modeling switched from technical back to more artistic. I realized I am not going to produce anything that compares to what a sculptor can do so I switched back to what I know best hard surface where it is more technically based and less artsy fartsy by feel and and eye.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 13-12-2011 at 06:38 AM.

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# 19 17-11-2011 , 04:48 PM

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Ha, but you're assuming that the core suite of tools continues to work after an update. Ha.

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# 20 17-11-2011 , 04:53 PM

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I just checked and if you use FBX subd weighting is maintained when exporting between modo and maya as well as other packages.

Also, there is no texture warping on curved surfaces that you often get with smoothing in maya.

Here are some example images I just grabbed from the website....imaginge trying to add all the support edges on that wheel rim!

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 17-11-2011 at 05:19 PM.

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# 21 17-11-2011 , 05:08 PM

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Stewart: true! LOL

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 22 18-11-2011 , 05:57 PM

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Another Maya guy here who does hard surface modeling, texturing and rendering only. I looked at Max and Modo in the past but came running back to Maya with my tail between the legs.

Max looks so pre historic with it's messy UI and Modo workflow too confusing for me. Although now I want to have another go but I just can't decide which I should go with out of Max and Modo for hard surface modeling/texturing/rendering.

I am not ready to ditch Maya yet though. Need one mainstream app near by.

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# 23 18-11-2011 , 06:00 PM

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Dontbugme-

You want regret Modo, I promise you that much.

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# 24 18-11-2011 , 09:32 PM

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I grumble a lot about Maya and I really would like to see the tools updated but I still use it as my main modeler. I just hop in and out of Modo for a couple things. I tried to make a complete switch but I just do not like the modo UI. Plus Maya is still the industry standard and I'd prefer to stick with it and hope it gets fixed.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 25 18-11-2011 , 11:58 PM

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I grumble a lot about Maya and I really would like to see the tools updated but I still use it as my main modeler. I just hop in and out of Modo for a couple things. I tried to make a complete switch but I just do not like the modo UI. Plus Maya is still the industry standard and I'd prefer to stick with it and hope it gets fixed.

Originally Posted by ctbram

I have waited too long in hope. user added image

I am tired of throwing money on subscription. Lack of time and familiarity with Maya is what forces me to stick with it. Although I love Maya's UI. I doubt AD will bring Maya up to date on the modeling side. user added image

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# 26 19-11-2011 , 04:15 PM

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dontbugme- I disagree with you on this. I bet you on the day when Luxology reach that point of CA tool set and Bone system and a few more features. AD will get their act together because Luxology's Modo is already lightyears ahead of AD in this area.

I give Luxology 2 to 3 years out maybe 4 is when you will see a shift. It's a sleeping giant right now, But we will see user added image

AD can afford to sit around as if they do nor have to deal with this right now. Bu you just wait, when the other Lion shows up. We shall see than how fast they get their act together. Or just maybe AD will purchase Modo and get rid Of Maya all together.

It sounds crazy I know but "what if". AD it seems is all about money and nickel and diming us as much as they can because they can right now. But one day another software will give it a run for it's money in a serious way. And to be the industry standard just blows my mind lol. I mean Maya has a lot to offer I am learning that as I go, However I am also hearing things about how far they are from updating tools.

Why is this, well It's because they feel "Neh we are the giants right now" and they get what we give them and so be it user added image

. Again they seem to be about the money, just a though.

Here we are almost to 2012 and I am hearing the tools are somewhat the same overall just moved around or named in such a way that makes it suitable for recent version.

I mean the bottom line is Maya is a good app and regardless of what they will or will not do we have to deal with it, lol insane when you think about it.

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