New Project: District 9 Tessla Riffle - Page 4

# 46 06-11-2010 , 10:04 AM

Lead Modeler - Framestore
Join Date: Feb 2003

Location: UK

Posts: 6,287

Nice work. It has a nice retro style to the design - almost Flash Gordon.

Mind the divisions on the final smooth as it looks a little unbalanced and over the top. Especially between the main stock frame work to the gas cylinders. It would be pointless to divide it that much, as judging from the topo theres enough there for a standard poly smooth '3' there.

This would be a nice model to paint up in Mari.....yum!!!

With regard to the hard surface modeling in maya ( I know, dog with a bone) I can see the arguement from both sides. Maya does have issues with hard surfaces especially if it is a complex design to be saught after so you have to weigh up the methodology of how you are going to make it it.

I recall the seam and fillet issues in maya back in the day when everyone and his dog was using them as standard. I was taught alot of modelling techniques from an Alias Wavefront guy back then and even he said it was a dog to use, it inspired him to write a script to correct issues after using each command to rectify the problems. Fortunately after that we all started using subds and then came the poly smooth - such is life LOL

look forward to the rest

Jay

Quote

# 47 06-11-2010 , 12:07 PM

Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Michigan, USA

Posts: 2,998

Thanks for the feedback Jay.

All the smoothed parts are just poly smooth preview key 3. The upper back tank needed more geometry unsmoothed to hold the edges in those slots without making the can go all lumpy near the rounded ends I am sure you know what I mean.

I did that darn outer can a bunch of times! I started with a 16-sided poly cylinder, then a 20, and finally ended up at 40-sided before the slots were clean. I also tried other methods like booleaning it and starting from a flat surface and bending it and I even built a nurbs version. The nurbs version actually worked well but I wanted to keep the model in polys. The final method was to make diagonal cuts and delete faces and allow natural rounding at the tips when smoothed.

Here it is before smoothing...

Negative spaces in poly models are a bugger and a half! It's easy to pile things up and out but pushing things in can be problematic. My solution is always to add more geometry while unsmoothed to reduce the area of effect when you push faces inward (if that makes sense to you).

The poly smooth preview key 3 is equivalent to a poly smooth with 2 divisions. My tendency is to model with enough geometry where that level is sufficient. I think it is because I keep toggling it as a model and so that level of smooth is where I am always focusing my attention.

For machined looking parts I tend to use bevel rather then smooth. But I must agree that I also have been thinking the stock frame bevel is a bit extreme and have been considering redoing it. From the minimum distance needed to see the entire gun the bevel is not to big a problem but as you get in tight on things it it starts scream "I am CG!!!!".

I have three ways to go, bevel the bevels, reduce the bevel, or smooth, and so I keep focusing on the easy bits trying to avoid the issue. I was waiting for someone else to notice it before I turned my attention back to it. I'll address it today and see what you think.

There may be some other single bevel parts that need a bit of refining.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 06-11-2010 at 01:31 PM.

Quote

# 48 06-11-2010 , 01:23 PM

Lead Modeler - Framestore
Join Date: Feb 2003

Location: UK

Posts: 6,287

Cool mate, yeah I know all about the divisions, sometimes they are more hassle with more loops than with less LOL. Im a bit wary of Mayas bevel tool, as it does produce some oddities depending on the geo in question - there used to be a script called 'bevel plus' that was much better, but I dont know if it even exists now. It used to be over at Highend3d (now CreativeCrash.com)

Look forward to the update

cheers
Jay

Quote

# 49 06-11-2010 , 06:01 PM

Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Michigan, USA

Posts: 2,998

Here you go Jay I took your advice and cleaned up the harsh edge bevel on the frame. I touched up a few other bevels as well.

Let me know if it looks right. I can always adjust it more.

Some things to note:

1. the rear bottle/tank is floating now because it will be cradled in a bracket I have yet to model.

2. In the frame only shot the floating bolts are okay as the handle bracket covers them and is hidden in the shot.

3. I believe bevel plus has been added to the maya poly modeling tools as of maya 8.5 as I recall. I agree bevel in just about any 3d package can create wonky results.

Some full shots...

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 09-11-2010 at 02:38 AM.

Quote

# 50 06-11-2010 , 11:37 PM

Lead Modeler - Framestore
Join Date: Feb 2003

Location: UK

Posts: 6,287

Looks great - nice work dude

Jay

Quote

# 51 07-11-2010 , 03:07 AM

Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Michigan, USA

Posts: 2,998

Thanks Jay!

Here is the back tank/bottle bracket and detail pretty much done.

To Do:

- The trigger
- The shoulder piece
- The greebles in the center of the stock
- The greebles and wires on top of the stock going to the upper back bottle

The greeble in the center and the wires are what really look cool and I can't wait to get them done.

Then it's on to cleanup, and UV layout.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 07-11-2010 at 06:20 PM.

Quote

# 52 07-11-2010 , 06:00 AM

Lifetime Member
Join Date: Feb 2010

Location: Australia

Posts: 4,255

Looking good mate....cant wait for the texture!!

cheers bullet

bullet1968

"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes

Quote

# 53 07-11-2010 , 01:08 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Dec 2009

Location: Netherlands

Posts: 78

Wow I think the gun looks awesome. Like bullet said I cant wait for the textures.
I am quit new at this so i got some questions. What do you mean with a smooth '3'? Is that a smooth with 3 division levels? And the model i am seeing now is that smoothed? And why do you build the back canister with poly's when it is easier to build with nurbs?

Quote

# 54 07-11-2010 , 04:39 PM

Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Michigan, USA

Posts: 2,998

Thanks John,

1. poly preview smooth 3 - means pressing the keyboard 3 key to smooth. The 1-key is unsmoothed, the 2-key is smoothed with unsmoothed cage, and the 3-key is smooth preview.

It's called smooth preview because in older versions of maya you could not render this. You would just get an unsmoothed render. So you would have to do a poly smooth with 2 divisions to get an equivalent render. From Maya 8 on I believe you no longer need to do the smooth and can render directly from the 3-key preview smooth. That is what I do as I rarely need to go beyond 2 divisions of smoothing.

2. Are the renders in my shots smoothed? Yes and no, most of the parts are smoothed 2 divisions (3-key). But many of the parts are also unsmoothed with bevels with 1-4 edges. For machined boxy parts I find beveling to be sufficient and looks more accurate and keeps the poly count lower as you are not dividing poly's that do not need to be divided.

3. I chose to model the upper back can in polys because I found the nurbs version of the can although very clean and accurate to had a different look from the other cans and I did not want to remodel all of them. Also, I find poly uv's more flexible for texturing then nurbs.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 07-11-2010 at 10:37 PM.

Quote

# 55 08-11-2010 , 01:58 AM

Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Michigan, USA

Posts: 2,998

Finished the center instrumentation package...

Full shots...

Getting close to done with the modeling.

To Do:

- Shoulder butt
- Upper instrumentation package and wiring *

* The upper instrumentation and wiring really sell the gun and I am looking forward to finishing those parts.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 09-11-2010 at 07:26 AM.

Quote

# 56 08-11-2010 , 09:20 AM

Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Michigan, USA

Posts: 2,998

Upper wiring stuff...

Middle section and upper wires...

Full shot...

All that is left for modeling is the shoulder butt piece. But I am to tired to be sure atm..

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Quote

# 57 08-11-2010 , 10:43 AM

The thin red line
Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: England

Posts: 4,472

Looking great ctbram, are any of the parts just hard edge not smoothed...............dave

Avatar Challenge Winner 2010

Quote

# 58 08-11-2010 , 03:47 PM

Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Michigan, USA

Posts: 2,998

Everything is either beveled or smoothed.

Beveled == unsmoothed just edge bevels. The entire stock, handle, section with the ribs on top of the bottom stock are all unsmoothed and just edge beveled.

Did something in particular seem to sharp to you?

To me it's a function of how close you intend to get to the object and what the object is and how it would be manufactured IRL. Blocky metal parts and medium to long shots look very good with just edge bevels.

Edge bevels save poly count but on tight shots you can see faceting and cg looking razor sharp edges.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 09-11-2010 at 02:24 PM.

Quote

# 59 08-11-2010 , 04:51 PM

The thin red line
Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: England

Posts: 4,472

No every thing looks OK to me, I am trying to add hard edge modelling into my work flow (no 3 button) it just hard to understand when to use it and when not.............dave

Avatar Challenge Winner 2010

Quote