I bet you have mulpiple personality syndrome...
(don't worry, he knows I'm err, he. err. him, err, me is joking.., don't yu bill?? .., hey, bill, bill, you there??)
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76
26-09-2006
, 01:57 PM
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I bet you have mulpiple personality syndrome...
(don't worry, he knows I'm err, he. err. him, err, me is joking.., don't yu bill?? .., hey, bill, bill, you there??)
take it easy and life will be easy
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77
26-09-2006
, 06:05 PM
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Andreazz, in a previous post you asked if I am American. I'm curious, what lead you to 'suspect' (if I can use that word in the nicest of ways) that I am? I'm not offened, I just want to know.
arran, you mention that the Buddhist monks burnt themselves to death was in an act of protest against the violence that was happening. While I do not doubt thier intentions or what motivated them to do this, my opinion of this is that their protest - burning themselves - while not inflicted upon others, is an act of violence depending on how you see it. How do you see it?
bill the dill, you mentioned, 'Asians are scared of spirits and are constantly giving them offerings to appease them, not thank them'
To my understanding, I must say that this is incorrect. Asian families burn 'spirit money' as an offering on certain days (differs from culture to culture), not to appease the spirits of their departed ancestors, but to provide them with a better quality of living in the afterlife. The money is supposed to represent that they living still care and remember them, and that they still view them to be part of the family. This is because of the customary gifts of money that the children are required give to their elderly parents to support them and give them a better quality of life. The offerings to their dead ancestors are a continuation of this custom. While Asians are certainly superstitious, I don't think that they give offerings to appease malevolent spirits, in fact they would probaly hire people to get rid of them (which is a common way of getting scammed in Asian countries).
However I am confused. Didn't the Buddhist monastaries enforce capital punishment against those who broke thier 'oaths' (please excuse my terminology)? I don't mean to offend anyone or to make clear any point or to enforce my own views, but is this true?
As for the theory that in some cases, religion was used as the excuse for political and military gain, perhaps those who are using it for this purpose are not using it becuase they believe that is what they should do, but to give themselves a better night's sleep. What do you think?
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26-09-2006
, 09:36 PM
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I think it's just a question of semantics. If you want to call it a violent act than fine, but I don't necessarily think that it is. The word suggests an uncontrolled force and I think that what they did took an extreme level of self control. I am sure you can set yourself on fire violently or non violently and to be honest, I don't really see how attempting to define it as violent or not relates to the act itself, its outcome or effect that it had on others.Originally posted by The Architect
arran, you mention that the Buddhist monks burnt themselves to death was in an act of protest against the violence that was happening. While I do not doubt thier intentions or what motivated them to do this, my opinion of this is that their protest - burning themselves - while not inflicted upon others, is an act of violence depending on how you see it. How do you see it?
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26-09-2006
, 09:42 PM
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This sentence seems to contradict itself. Doing something to give yourself a better nights sleep would seem to suggest that what you are doing is something you believe that you should do. Sorry to be pedantic.:pOriginally posted by The Architect
As for the theory that in some cases, religion was used as the excuse for political and military gain, perhaps those who are using it for this purpose are not using it becuase they believe that is what they should do, but to give themselves a better night's sleep. What do you think?
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80
27-09-2006
, 01:49 AM
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The Japanese have some friendly spirits but they are mainly people who were particularly good in their life and were given the rank of Kami by heaven for their deeds. I thought about it last night and I suspected someone would catch me on this point, well done and to your credit. Still i can't think of any where where spirits are not feared beside the odd one here and there like i mentioned. Indonesia, very pagan, are petrified of spirits, you would have to live there and i don't want to bore you or myself with the details , too long a story.
I still affirm, religion is a social institution and a needed one, we get our direction in good and bad from our gods, whatever country we live, but it is still politics, just the necessity of needing an idol to control the masses is politics in a pure form, you can't get more political than that.
and who is the biggest and most feared spirit..?? do i need to say it, he will throw you in Hell if your not a good boy or girl, I suspect this was a children's tale of warning that got out of hand. I personally find the bible completely contradictory, 'there is no after life but there is a hell and heaven,' how can that be said in the same sentence? I mean no harm, it is simply a personal opinion.
take it easy and life will be easy
Last edited by mirek03; 27-09-2006 at 01:54 AM.
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81
27-09-2006
, 02:11 AM
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Arron do you mean 'you should 'NOT' not do,' is that a typo?
take it easy and life will be easy
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27-09-2006
, 03:41 AM
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"I still affirm, religion is a social institution and a needed one, we get our direction in good and bad from our gods.."
It is a myth that moral values can not be divorced from the belief in a god. Buddhism has done just that for 2500 years.
It's a famous philosophical paradox:
Why do you believe that you should follow the moral rules of a god. Because you think his rules are good.?
But how then do you decide that his rules are good? Apparently you still have your own criteria with which to decide what is right or wrong.
If you read the bible you'll find numerous examples of very, very questionable moral rules.
Did you know that the christian god accepts slavery.
Lev. 25:44 states that you may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. Isn't that great!
If you would like to sell your daughter into slavery, you can do so. This is sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
Wouldn't it be nice to make a few bucks that way. Maybe you could buy a new car.
Ofcourse it is allowed to hit your slave with a stick (Exodus 21:20). If the slave dies the owner has to be punished. If the slave dies after two days then punishment isn't necessary. Loosing his posession is punishment enough for the slave owner. So, never hit your slaves too hard. Wonderfull isn't it?
I could give you so many, many examples of the immorality of the biblical god.
One other example. It is about how to treat your defeated enemies.
In Deuteronomium 20:10 the god of the bible says that if an enemy doesn't surrender immediately you should kill every single man. None must survive. You can use the women and children anyway you please. It is a gift of god. Rape 'm, kill 'm, just have fun. He really is a nice god isn't he.
It makes me so angry, so bitter. I've waisted so many years of my life on a faith like this. How could I be so blind.
So, Mirek03...please do tell me how a god like that could be your source for moral values.
Mirek03, Im not angry at you, or offended or anything (and I certainly do not want to offend anyone myself). You just hit a nerve. But I really would like an answer.
Last edited by Andreazz; 27-09-2006 at 04:03 AM.
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83
27-09-2006
, 04:00 AM
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I have to rush, i have 30 minutes to get out of here, in my car and into class at in so we can continue anytime if you don't get it now,
I meant in general ALL gods or spirits are particular to that culture they belong in, I didn't mean to single out any one god. For example; The gods in Japan are quite bawdy, they drink, have S...X and generally some of them are quite mischievous and hence Japanese do not have the same problems with sexual identity as we might in the west, (this is a HUGE generalization) but they have other problems. At least they are not guilty about an act that is the most natural in the world, and i feel for you, that you put your life and beliefs into a god that finally left you disillusioned.
no no, I agree, i would never put my faith in something so obviously political, even written hundreds of years after the fact as an instituion, not a philosophy, as any of the forms of Christianity that i have encountered.
having said that, I respect those that have their own opinions and would never try to convert anyone to my way of thinking (heaven forbid) and also, yes i have been brianwashed (sorry but thts how i see it) as a christian, despite being allured toward eastern thought and having studied it and lived it alot; not just at the moment, too busy learning to make movies lol.
n
we can continue this, i hope no-one is offended ad if so please say and do not brood, i am happy to tell my thoughts and explain them, i have no opinion of another's belief, that is a personal choice. If someone is curious about my belief, well as I said, happy to talk it over.
hope this answeres your question.
I don't believe in the big bad boogy man. (you may well ask which is he taliking about, god or satan, two sides of the same coin, ying and yang, day and night, good and bad, up and down, high and low, long and short, ect )
take it easy and life will be easy
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27-09-2006
, 04:27 AM
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I'm afraid I'm not a very good Buddhist. Too many ghosts of my past are still bothering me. I envy you. It's difficult for me not to have opinions about a religion like Christianity. It was quite a struggle to get rid of it. And somehow something always stays behind.
Because of my past I know quite a lot about Christianity which makes it very difficult to respect for me. Most Christians know almost next to nothing about their faith so I couldn't and wouldn't blame them personally.
My own family or what is left of it (grandfather, mother, brother, sister in law) is still part of it and they are good and very nice people. So I can and do make a distinction between the believers and their religion. I do respect them, but respecting their faith is just too much for me. I can't do it. I know too much about it. Too much inside information.
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27-09-2006
, 04:53 AM
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27-09-2006
, 04:58 AM
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i agree, it is brainwashing..(gee, brainwashing is a wierd word)Originally posted by mirek03
and also, yes i have been brianwashed (sorry but thts how i see it) as a christian
i believe that parents, or guardians should not be allowed to force their children to follow an organized religion. Because when you think about it, religion has caused EVERY war in history to some degree.
i am glad i was raised in a way in which i was not brainwashed.
i hope i have not offended anyone by my words(although i would not be offended by these words, talking about religion can be like insulting ones mother
)-Andy
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27-09-2006
, 06:13 AM
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27-09-2006
, 07:01 AM
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I guess i have been very lucky to sort of 'wander the earth,' so to speak, and not be tied down be any particular thought or institution. That came at a great cost, parents separated at 11 and me left on the street. Luckily before that there was a lot of love between my mother and me and so i was never left bitter, ...just lost. What does a lost person do, they find themselves or live lost forever, i personally didn't want to be lost so i took a good look around at the countries i traveled and took a bit from here and a bit from there and made my own decisions. I was never pressed into any religion at all but I always had faith that something good was watching me and i never called it God because I have never believed anything from a book, (even a Buddhist book lol) i try to learn from experience and so i did.
What does all that mean or tell us?? that love is very important, the most important thing, but then that begs the question, 'what is love?' Well again that is just a word with many meanings, as Kahlil Gibran said, ' but if in your fear you seek only love's pleasure and peace, then it is better you cover your nakedness and pass out from love's threshing floor, into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all your laughter, and you shall weep but not all your tears.'
ummm, getting a bit deep here but I'm trying to say, 'don't envy me' we all have our own path to travel (if you believe Led Zeppelin we have 'two paths we can go down' lol) and your path will make itself obvious as time goes , trust me. You are obviously a bit of a thinker and believe in doing the right thing, whether you feel you can find your way through the maze of experiance at the moment.., is not really important, it is in the trying that makes the doing (just like maya lol). I have been to some very black places but, as Buhhda said. 'a lotus grow from mud!'
As an anonymous monk from the 16th century said (although some idiot claimed it as his own because some how he paid for the rights') the desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and
Remember what peace there may be in silence .
As far as possible, without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others,
even to the dull and ignorant: they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter,
always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble,
it is a real possession and the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign to affection.
Neither be cynical about Love; for in the face all aridity
and disenchantment, in is perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the Council of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are borne of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, what ever you conceive him to be.
And what ever your labours and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world, be careful.
Strive to be happy.
one last thing from me, what is a non-denominational Christian, seems a contradiction in terms or an oxymoron.
take it easy and life will be easy
#
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27-09-2006
, 10:18 AM
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::Quick question:::
And why?
Think about that!
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27-09-2006
, 01:16 PM
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a little too deep for me I'm afraid. I don't think that hard, i try to keep it simple.
take it easy and life will be easy
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