*WAR* - Page 9 - Simply Maya User Community

# 121 26-03-2003 , 01:29 PM

Kevin

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Originally posted by alexgc
lol is that a challenge?

Ur talking to a guy here that has been at uni for four years, a guy that, in his first year managed to drink so much as to be taken to hospital in an ambulence...ur talking to a guy that went on 24 hr drinking competitions at uni...ur talking to a guy that not only worked in a bar but drunk most of it also!! ur talking to a guy that is 6 ft 4 and 15 stone of pure drinking...ness! No lightweight here. I drank so much on my 21st and still was the last person to get drunk - much to the annoyance of my mates lol I have many stories...a challenge?...a challenge??...U CANT HANDLE A CHALLENGE!!

lol

Originally Posted by

OH YEAH!!!!! my kinda guy!!!!! bring it on user added image

me and dave have the "occasional beer to" user added image

damn mate you have to come out now, you really sound like the sort of guy who would fit right in

Ill buy first 3 rounds - how bout that user added image

# 122 26-03-2003 , 01:33 PM

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Originally posted by Kevin
OH YEAH!!!!! my kinda guy!!!!! bring it on

me and dave have the "occasional beer to"

damn mate you have to come out now, you really sound like the sort of guy who would fit right in

Ill buy firt 3 rounds - how bout that

Originally Posted by

lol see how u idolise me already

btw is this the right thread for these kinda posts lol

seriously tho I cant this weekend. Any other weekend but this one!!!

# 123 26-03-2003 , 01:36 PM

Kevin

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lol, well I was getting kinda concerned that the thread was getting a little heated, so added a little life to it, but yep you right...

Ill shut up now user added image

# 124 26-03-2003 , 01:58 PM

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Once again - beer to the rescue. In the right hands its clearly a potent tool...

# 125 26-03-2003 , 02:05 PM

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heh...

alexGC:

What things do you refer to when you say "(...) the things that u and I hold dear in this world (...)" ?

I have not (yet) argued against religion! Please be specific. I simply stated that I don't like semi-religious traits in politics.

What is an "apolitical statement" ? Im not used to that term.

You guys can justify the way any way you see fit (man is free to feel whatever he want to feel/think/mean/say. But I say it is a nast habit in the world, to keep the worth of humans below anyones political interest's. This specific anti-war sympathy of mine is (of course) personal and I do not claim to know anyones oppinions.I do not hate people 24 seven, because people are free to make up their own minds.

However...
I have the impression, and probably with the same confidence Bush has in "god"...

...that most people, who maybe turns semi-philosophical in terms of justifying this war (any aggressional war, with immediate self-defence taken out of this setting), do not really seem to understand what aberration it is to support war today (or do nothing about it), IF people agree to the war as "humane", or "justified", or the "right thing to do", or "to bring democracy to Iraq", or even try to play the "Iraq is a danger to the world" phrase.

People seem to accept the cost of a war.
AND THAT IS WHAT ANGERS ME.

And if people accept this, then I fear they do so, fully lullied into self-rightousness, based on what I'd like to call; "simple binary feelings". Like saying; "the war has started" = "the war should be completed in order to finish and end the war". I do not claim to know how people do their reasoning, and I will never know for sure how they do their reasoning, but I find it very suspect, when people simply want to "get it over with". Like adldesigner wrote to me earlier.

Anyone claiming to be ONLY "sad", "mournfull", "in regret" of the war, should be in acceptance that they probably accept going to war or even accept finishing the war with what it costs now and probably in the future.

...just as long as we get it over with...

Shame on you guys for go along with the war, in spite of alternatives, or to accept the abberation of war.

I am not against war per se, but any war apparanty based on the whim of politicians, that aren't showing the proper integerity, when jusifying war, they are apparantly in error. Or worse they are possibly criminals. An object to my recentment, anger and posssibly hate.

A personal interpretation of POW's, would be that they could be killed, for the sake of a very vague motive of self-defence, as any POW may be a future terrorist or the like. But one doesn't kill POW's. It is not morally or ethically a sane judgement. Still... the USA have chosen to go to war, based on claims of self-defence.

Still there is no shame in protesting against war. Any left-wing protesters refusing to support war on any terms, should be respected for their views. Some protesters are probably more thoughtful than others, but please do not ridicule any pure anti-war sentiments.

I do not support Bush! Nor Saddam! Long live UN!

# 126 26-03-2003 , 02:12 PM

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boring ........................... kev ill meet ya for a beer

# 127 26-03-2003 , 02:23 PM

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I dont support bush, I dont support saddam,,, i only hope that the casualities on both sides be less and finished soon...

# 128 26-03-2003 , 02:30 PM

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If we would have wanted to change the Iraqi culture we should have invaded with ecstasy and electronic music...

:banana:

... oh, and beer.

# 129 26-03-2003 , 02:31 PM

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but the problem is, that it won't be a "quick war" and every day more ppl are dying...

and if the coalition would say, ok we stop the war now how many iraqis would be killed by saddam?

this war shouln't be (now), without the un, but now they cannot stop anymore...

its gonna be a long and bloody war

# 130 26-03-2003 , 02:34 PM

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and microsoft! there was also a little designed for microsoft internetexplorer sign on the aljazeera site! and they are against us user added image

# 131 26-03-2003 , 02:35 PM

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sorry, not us usa of course!

# 132 26-03-2003 , 02:37 PM

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would you accept if a country comes to your country removes bush and keeps a puppet.. would you accept the government???

# 133 26-03-2003 , 02:57 PM

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Undseth by apolitical I mean non-political, without politics. And when i refer to things we hold dear i mean our families, friends, passions in life. What meaning would they have if we were not allowed to express our feelings to their full extent. Im not only talking about a totalitarian suppression but also a political suppression.

As for what u say, I do not and never will hold the worth of human life below anything else. I have also never suggested that I dont respect other's opinions. Quite the opposite. If u read all I have said before in this thread u would see that.

Yes war is an aberration, but u have to ask urself whether it would be better to stick with what u have rather than strive for something better. And u say there are alternatives. Please enlighten me. We are talking about a man here who cares not for diplomacy. We are talking about a man who cares not for human decency. Indeed, this man is someone who doesnt hold human life to its true worth. In reality there is nothing acceptable about war, but it is the way of the world that u have to balance out what is the more acceptable - in this case desposing of Saddam through military action or letting Saddam continue to act on his own free will.

I doubt anyone accepts the cost of war, but I do think people understand that sometimes it is a necessary price to pay.

The "simple binary feelings" u refer to I agree are wrong but it is to my mind that these perhaps are down to naivety and ignorance more than anything else.

Your claim that "the USA have chosen to go to war, based on claims of self-defence" is not strictly true. As far as I have seen it from both Blair and Bush, another motive is to keep in order a secure global structure. For sure its intent is to benefit us all. The instability in the middle east is frightening. To my mind the Palestinian question needs to be resolved upmost in order to make a great step forward. Here is where diplomacy works. When there is a mutual acceptance for the diplomatic resolution, then it will work.

You say "Any left-wing protesters refusing to support war on any terms, should be respected for their views." Granted. But then so should all views be respected in the same way. In an earlier thread u called Darkon and Mike Mckinley morons for their opinions. You cannot contradict urself in that manner. You said urself "people are free to make up their own minds."

Make no mistake. The day war is consigned to history, I will be rejoicing as much as u undseth

# 134 26-03-2003 , 04:49 PM

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thank you so much undseth and tariqrf!
I thought I was the only guy against this war here.
Mind that I say 'this war' because I know that sometimes going to war is justified (eg: usa helping us in WW I, II). However I feel this war is fought for very wrong reasons and there were still other options to help the Iraquees as I said in previous threads.

Darkon, plz realise that the left-wing protesters do not support Saddam at all. They just feel that their are other ways to get rid of him and help the people of Iraq.

Also, what's wrong about Europe? If you look at this objectively, the life standards in European countries (most of them anyway) are much better than in US. I base this on the UN reports about countries. (eg: social security is bad and expensive in the usa, while much more developed here)

now ofcourse I realize not all is bad there, most of our cool stuff comes from your country, you have magnificent nature parks, nice people (many of them anywayz)

Great people can be found anywhere on earth I'm sure, even in the middle east!

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# 135 26-03-2003 , 04:55 PM

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How frustrating it gets to hear this naive idea that the world could live in a non-war political realm.
Human's basic instinct is to protect themselves...its rather quite simple. Sure I could argue all the reasons that wars get started and all the reasons not to fight for certain things, but when it comes right down to it everyone hear would kill another if they were threatened with death themselves.
Now not all of us in our life times will be threatened with death so its easy to sit back and select which reasons you think are legitimate to fight for. For me it is only my family and my posessions. If someone is willing to take from me with force then they better be ready to meet force as well. If a person feels that their posessions or family are being threatened by the weakening of their countries economic standing or attacks close to them then they might connect that threat with fighting for their government as well.
I guess there is an argument that some could make that they would not protect these posessions, but where do you draw YOUR line? If you don't protect it somewhere, then people whom take things by force will be back for more and next time it may be your family.
This is in no way taking a side to the US or Iraq, or any government for that matter and in most ways the only reason for governments anywhere is to take things by force from its people. I just can't believe that people believe there is ever the possibility in this world that we could live without war. People will always live under their basic instincts. Since survival is one of the most basic --people will always try to take advantage of people that they see as weaker or that they see they can benefit from.

just trying to pick a few things up

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