Integrating 3D models with photography
Interested in integrating your 3D work with the real world? This might help
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121
14-04-2003
, 02:19 AM
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Perhaps making the thighs larger -or longer-? Looks as if he does not have any method of locomotion. I´d illustrate my point in Photoshop, however I´m kinda short on RAM as we speak.
Might want to check the Deinonychus thread opened by Kurt to see what I mean.
adldesigner
Caracas, Venezuela
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#
122
14-04-2003
, 03:33 AM
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123
14-04-2003
, 04:35 AM
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Took the nerve to open Photoshop for a while, resources were scarce, computer survived through just enough time to spit out the image you see below.
In any case going back at what you said, you do have a contradiction in your words. You make a comparison between your model´s legs and those of a horse yet you tell me he would fly around more than walk. In such a case you would find yourself with a creature with yet stronger, longer and slender legs than those a horse would have, since a horse wouldn´t have to land at all -and taking you drew the devil with a maiden virgin (:p) I´d say he really is a heavy creature-
What I´m trying to say is, -Watch the reference below- a horse has lots of muscles in the upper region since his legs are more pillar-like (A characteristic found in lots of heavy quadrupeds) but since your creature actually has more of a flying heritage, he would resemble more of a bird (or biped creature with wings), -which is why I advised you to check the reference pics in the Deinonychus thread-
In the same topic, look at the big lump of bone he has for a feet -which looks awesome in my POV-, now look at the bones to which the muscles that hold that same lump anchor. Kinda small aren´t they? This creature would actually have tremendous feet without being able to lift not one of them.
That was my whole point in my last reply.
<just had trouble illustrating it>
adldesigner
Caracas, Venezuela
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Last edited by adldesigner; 14-04-2003 at 04:38 AM.
#
124
14-04-2003
, 06:10 AM
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#
125
14-04-2003
, 06:28 AM
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C+C
I'm def not bashing your C+C though. I like it all. at the very least it gives me a chance to really conseder rather I have got something right or not. and thats kinda a thing I go after is , is it posible like that. Even if hell would be suposidly luser on the laws of physics (sp?) considering its ethreal.
Ok about the horse part. true horses don't fly witch is aculay why its better to use them as a basis of this conversation. Horses have a lot more mass as compared to there legs, and they jump about as high as there body hight. ( Up to the withers, sholders) They don't have wings to back flap and air brake for a softer landing so it is acualy harder on there legs and muscles. So I think if my devils muscle mass is close to a horse as paportional to body mass thin the legs can handle flight, landings and walking around with eaze.
ok about the pic I have. as you can see the devil , ( I counted the squares, very scientific I know but I don't want to acualy go in to bio mechanics that much) has 29 cubes of muscle mass ware as a rufly paportonal leged horse has 26. and also the body cavity of the devils is less than the horse. especaly when considering the devil has less width from side to side as the horse dose.
as for birds legs longer and stronger.. thy are longer but much weeker than a horse or dino. consider the paportions on the avrige bird. muscles up at the top of the leg but less power.
Haven't looked but I think it will hang with a T-rex.
and the feet are big becosue all the muscles to controle the clows are down in the foot, not up the leg like is normal. that way the tendonts are more protected in the cavitys of the foot bones for fighting.
#
126
14-04-2003
, 06:50 AM
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I think it comes down to a gut feeling and I believe that the truth will be revealed by the wings.
I think though that the feet do look a little heavy for the body and that maybe if they looked more talon-like (also perhaps lighter) they might be more frightening.
Check out the subsurfacescattering on my tongue...
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#
127
14-04-2003
, 07:16 AM
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#
128
14-04-2003
, 09:34 AM
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Vectorman, hay you know thats a thought its like a Clidsdaile velosorapter, with a demon cow skule !
ereitz.. there you are.. haven't seen you post on this one in a little.. LOL .. thanks man, also good points.. I think its way cool to have conversations like this.. oh about the feet.. I understand how ya feel.. but something to pass buy ya, see what you think.. I'm kinda thinking about the feet like he is a evil great owl. big ass feet for its size. and he kinda lumbers around becouse he's so meen he don't have to move fast kinda thing ???
Hay wicket, thanks.. keep cheaking it out, will be gettting to the maiden some time soon I hope.. maybe I can get my own woarning lable on my thread ,, the CG Nudity one !!
#
129
14-04-2003
, 10:02 AM
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I want to thank you for making this an excellent oportunity to debate a bit, I believe this enhances our work, and help us achieve a far better level of understanding of our art, and the laws that work behind it. I liked the points you made.
At times we forget that we are simply imagining creatures and bringing them to life. However, to the our mundane-trained eye it´s difficult to pass things up, that look off. We are actually trained to spot faster the mistakes/flaws/corrections a model might have than actually viewing it from a far more holistic approach.
In any case, on with the debate then, I noticed the fact that you handled the strength of your model´s feet with a quantitative point of view, where 29 units of mass are stronger than 26 of them. Indeed, they are. However, you aren´t taking into account the configuration in which those units are handled. For example, look at the way the horse´s leg muscles are distributed, (Extremely efficient configuration by the way), again they look quite different from yours, however, just in the spirit of debate, I configured your devil´s leg muscles fairly similar to the horse´s. They attach in almost the same points. Note: I´m no expert in the field of horse anatomy nor in biomechanics (as Pony so aptly put it), I found some great reference pics and worked from there. As such, I don´t know any muscles names or anything, so I´ll make my own convention and call them by the colors I drawed them in.
Notice how when a horse´s red muscles pulls up-forward, while pulling the navyblue up-backwards, doesn´t need so much force to pull the whole feet up, this would again be a remnant of the pillar-like structure the horse evolved with. Extremely strong to put weight on, yet relatively lightweight. (Same deal with bridges). Let´s go to the devil´s feet now, we notice the appearance of a big lump of bone, which even though -if I understood correctly- has tendons running inside of him, still gives the impression of being fairly heavy. Having almost the same mass of muscle (29 to 26 right?) our devil has yet to pull up a big bone, (Which to make matters worse DOES NOT have any way of going up per se, since he does not have any tendons, nor muscles -up to the task- attached to the leg that would help him in the process). *(Upper picture)
To take your idea a bit further, and using the same means, let´s calculate the mass our devil has to pull from the ground, and that of the horse.
<adldesigner starts counting again, from the blue downwards> *(Lower picture)
Horse pulls 14. <--- Definitely winning in the efficient category.
Devil pulls ... 30. <-- Has trouble even walking.
In any case, and since I´m getting sleepy now, I´ll leave it at this point, and make a personal note, I like your model quite a lot .. however, it does have that leg flaw. From here there´s only two routes we can go for; either we correct the flaw -and go the anatomically correct way-, or we leave it as is -and go the imaginative way-
Neither of them is wrong. As a matter of fact, either way you go, you´ll still have an excellent -not to mention a perhaps winning- model to brag about.
Again, I thank you for such an excellent debate ... I think I need to rest now (6:00 AM here). I´m starting to walk like the devil to try to prove my point, and that borders on insanity right?
By the way, while I was gathering some information pertaining to the case, I downloaded some ostrich pictures. They might prove usefull to you.
adldesigner
Caracas, Venezuela
Hell .. not gone perse, but with a certainly lower post count per day.
#
130
14-04-2003
, 10:03 AM
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LOL, she looks cool bud! Model her ... I kinda like this month´s Hell & Bobbies Challenge!Originally posted by pony
Adldesigner,, LOL btw cool that you like the maiden virgin ! hope to be Modeling her wire frame soon ! maybe you can C+C the virgin part of that for me ?? he ? LOL ...
... Hay wicket, thanks.. keep cheaking it out, will be gettting to the maiden some time soon I hope.. maybe I can get my own woarning lable on my thread ,, the CG Nudity one !!
**EDIT** By the way, did you notice that in my first image, the devil is kinda sniffing the horse´s arse, and in your reply it´s the horse the one who´s sniffing the devil´s arse?
LMAO ... going to sleep now. Cheers mate, keep up the good work.
adldesigner
Caracas, Venezuela
Hell .. not gone perse, but with a certainly lower post count per day.
Last edited by adldesigner; 14-04-2003 at 10:16 AM.
#
131
14-04-2003
, 09:14 PM
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I like the debate also. and have no problem talking about it. even if the devil is flowed. basicly when I was drawing him I liked so much how it just come out of no ware with out refrance that I desided to stick with it for the most part.. IF I get time to really redo the feet if I get a chance thin I just might. I want to make sure I compleat the challenge. Done want you to think that I'm blowing off the good points. I just don't know if I will have time. Haven't tryed to texture befor. I will prob do fine with making them but laying out UV's and such are a mistory still yet.
#
132
14-04-2003
, 10:43 PM
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.
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133
14-04-2003
, 10:44 PM
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134
14-04-2003
, 10:48 PM
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It´s looking mighty fine though, and I´ll continue to monitor the thread.
Cheers
adldesigner
Caracas, Venezuela
Hell .. not gone perse, but with a certainly lower post count per day.
#
135
14-04-2003
, 11:10 PM
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Lol Pony, should be interesting to say the least.hay you know thats a thought its like a Clidsdaile velosorapter, with a demon cow skule !
"When you are born, you have a resposiblilty to program you're own mind, if you do not accept this responsiblilty, then the world will do it for you"
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