Sexism in Game Design

# 1 24-09-2006 , 02:32 AM

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Hmm. Just browsing around when I came across this. So what are your thoughts on this? I'm sure that some of Simply Maya's members work in the game industry, so I'll be especially interested to hear their thoughts.

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# 2 24-09-2006 , 02:58 AM

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Care to elaborate? How are you percieving sexism in game design? It's a very broad question, sexism meaning the industry is mainly predominantly male, the characters are vastly over exaggerated, ie women with big jugs, men built like buses?

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Last edited by j5ive; 24-09-2006 at 03:04 AM.

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# 3 24-09-2006 , 09:07 PM

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I was searching Google for character design (I want to make games one day) and it came up with this design from Namco or something along with a lot of pages of what the designer was thinking and why he made this so and so. At the bottom, there were many comments saying that it was sexist.

It was some awful design of a girl in an outfit holding a metal pipe in a strange looking pose (I suspect its meant to look appealing). Not the first time I've seen stuff like that, but it makes you wonder wether there are people sad enough to play it. I haven't pursued game development for a while so everything to me looks a lot more overdone than it was the last time I looked. Lost the link though - my box crashed so no history on HD.

Also on the subject, anyone remember StarCraft Ghost? It was fine until a Swinging Apes took over and they just trashed everything: Lead Art guy – ‘hey lets give Nova a semi transparent outfit’. I'm a big fan of SC so that ticked me off a bit – especially when they cancelled it. Probably for the best.

On the subject of games these days, when was the last time you ever played a game that has an ounce of logic in it? I stopped looking a long time ago.

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# 4 24-09-2006 , 11:23 PM

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I think some games that focus on feminine wilds get more ratings.
I have nothing againts them unless they are designed really obscene.

Lets keep our dreams alive!

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# 5 25-09-2006 , 01:04 PM

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In my opinion, we should make games that are more realistic instead of whatever way we make them now. Doesn't anyone remember SC Ghost? It just makes me cook off to think about how much they messed up the game before they cancelled it.

I don't have much probelms with exaggerations, as long as they are OK, like Duke Nukem 3D (they had thier reasons), and as long as they are not silly.

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# 6 25-09-2006 , 09:21 PM

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I personally prefer to stray into the non realistic realms of games. As in my view the most successful games are the ones with strong (not physically) lead characters that the user can either relate to or is in awe to follow. A game full of 'average joe' characters would never be as appealing as a game with unique characters that the gamer is enticed to test out. I don't know how this gone off the sexism route lol. I think games are definately stereotypical-ising characters now, ie the main male is normally a good looking fella or at least a womaniser, build like a barn, and has some cool gun moves. But again this is more appealing to play than a weedy little fella that drops his gun everytime he reaches for it. You get my drift. Need another beer after this. user added image

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# 7 26-09-2006 , 06:26 PM

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j5ive you said: 'I don't know how this gone off the sexism route...'

Well you mention that we do stereotype these days, some of that is linked to sexism, which in a way is just stupidity, which is being unrealistic... so I'm sure they all fit together. Maybe I should have just called this thread 'stupidity in games'.

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# 8 26-09-2006 , 06:41 PM

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I think the sterotyping is good, as long as it is done with an original twist. If there were no stereotyping of the lead characters the whole games shelf would be variants of the sims, average people leading average lives. Games need to push the realms of normality to make them appealing. I wouldn't buy a game where the lead character is a middle aged balding man who drives a bus for 40 hours a week. To me, so long as the storyline, characters are new and appealing the fact that they are not believable does not make the slightest difference to me.

Even the earliest of games were completely unbelievable yet they are the most successful of their times, look at the Mario series, 2 plumbers from Brooklyn end up in some twisted world with a toadstool for a friend or sonic the hedgehog rolling around the set at the speed of light collecting gold rings then fighting all sorts of monstroseties.

You could carry the unrealism arguement on for lots more, like films, superman, spiderman, xmen etc, none of these exist yet they have brought enjoyment to so many people that have watched them, purely because it is entertaining and you will find every avid viewer/fan relates or is in awe to be like one of the 'heroes'

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# 9 26-09-2006 , 06:59 PM

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My stance on stereotyping is that it can be good in some cases, when its used in a game like Duke Nukem 3D. 3DRealms used it properly and for comedy as well as the good old '80s action movie feel, but today, its just damn stupid most of the time. It makes characters shallow, it lessens the impact of the story, it just makes you feel that it came from a factory.

Realism and reality is very different from 'average'. I certainly did not make the association before I started to reply to its usage. Many people (in reality) don't have 'average' lives, and reality certainly is not 'average' - there are flukes and stuff. I think that I've been misunderstood by some - I never said games should have average characters, I said that these days, a large portion of games stereotype - are sexist, unrealistic and that in my opinon that they would be better if they were more realistic.

Movies and some games, the difference is that movies have more artistic expression, which may require flying people and Gandalf to make that expression. However a large amount of games these days are just... stupid.

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# 10 26-09-2006 , 07:20 PM

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If you want controversy in Gaming look at the amount of stick Rockstar have to take for every edition of GTA, Manhunter, The Warriors etc...

All I can say is its the reason why games and films are rated. Some films are the same, its a story, its not real, its fiction. NOT fact. Its about escapism. Remeber different cultures will view things in different ways, this goes for regilion too.

Its those who feel they should judge and not accept things as they are. Whether it is moral or not is a question for someone else, as long as it entertains and is rated correctly. People moan about contents of films and games, but if a parent is daft enough to expose there children to it, who is to blaim. Those who make and distribute the game or film or those who allow the people in their charge or care to view something they shouldn't?

Its all about the blaim culture. This goes for the use of Sex, Drugs, violence or language in any industry. Take blaim, for you actions, if you are worng then your wrong. This means consumers, developers and those who distribute.

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# 11 27-09-2006 , 04:07 PM

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Does everyone really think I'm Senator Tommy Kilby in disguise? LOL!

R@nSiD: 'If you want controversy in Gaming look at the amount of stick Rockstar have to take for every edition of GTA, Manhunter, The Warriors etc...'

I have absolutely no problems with Rockstar Games and what they are doing. They have good reasons for what they are doing and I support them fully. In fact, I think that they are leading the charge for this content to be in the mainstream, which can result in so many more possibilities when it comes to making games and such (if censors had their way, we would all be playing Box Stacker, the only game not to mess with your child's head), lol.

R@nSiD: 'All I can say is its the reason why games and films are rated. Some films are the same, its a story, its not real, its fiction. NOT fact. Its about escapism. Remeber different cultures will view
things in different ways, this goes for regilion too.'

I did not say censor anything - censors suck (most of the time). If someone got hit with a .50 cal, the realistic way to represent that in a game is to use a lot of red pixels. Lots and lots and lots of them. And anyway, fiction can be pretty realistic.

R@nSiD: 'Its those who feel they should judge and not accept things as they are. Whether it is moral or not is a question for someone else, as long as it entertains and is rated correctly. People moan about contents of films and games, but if a parent is daft enough to expose there children to it, who is to blaim. Those who make and distribute the game or film or those who allow the people in their charge or care to view something they shouldn't?'

Well, its just my opinion that with outragously exaggerated and rather silly characters being the norm these days, its not very entertaining. But thats just my opinion.

And really, why do people associate games with children? Its very stupid and its also stereotyping! Most games are played by adults or teens who know that its a game. And I doubt that young children can understand the stories of some games. Sure, those current affair shows always have some shocking tale to tell, but then, thier contents are 99% imagination.

R@nSiD: 'Its all about the blaim culture. This goes for the use of Sex, Drugs, violence or language in any industry.'

I think I'm being misunderstood. My point is that we need more realism. Foul language (very appropriate when your PSU catches on fire), sex, violence is all pretty real. Stereotypes and sexism? Not real. Anyone heard of KC? If you do, you would know what I mean.

Last edited by The Architect; 27-09-2006 at 04:13 PM.

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# 12 27-09-2006 , 04:11 PM

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I suggest you recheck who you are quoting and edit where required.

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# 13 27-09-2006 , 04:15 PM

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Oops... I apologize, really sorry.

Must be the sleep depravation. Or maybe it was that dam Ctrl C?

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# 14 27-09-2006 , 04:23 PM

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LOL

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# 15 27-09-2006 , 06:12 PM

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I'm not saying realism is wrong. But...

It has to be handled carefully and set correctly to its audience. Its something the Entertainment Industry has had to deal with for decades and will have to for decades to come. For gaming this is relatively new and I feel that with the massive advances in technology with characters and environments becoming more real, some sections of society are having issues dealing with it.

You have taken my post quite negatively, it might be written that way, but I do fully support what the games industry is doing. I feel, however, they tread a finer line as they don't have the same power as Hollywood (yet), more "groups" seem to get involved in giving gaming a bad name.

Im 34 now and have been playing games since I was 12. Thats 22 years and there will be another 42 years to come, and maybe I will get a job making them (I hope). I find it the best way to escape. Do things I know I can't in the real world. Currently I am back playing HL2 and GTA:SA & waitng for GTA: VC Stories for the PSP.

Censorship is needed IMHO, without it my son would be open to situations, images and video footage I know he is not prepared to deal with. Censorship is there for the protection of others and to cover the producers ass user added image

,

How do you think Rockstar can tell the moaners to shut up:

"ITS AN 18 CERT AND YOU LET YOUR 12 YR OLD PLAY IT AND NOW YOU BLAIM US FOR HIM KILLING EVERYONE IN HIS SCHOOL WITH A FLAME THOWER",

I hear them cry. LOL.

Its great to get the different options of others on subjects like this as everyone has a view.

Speak up People :attn:

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Last edited by R@nSiD; 27-09-2006 at 06:19 PM.

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