A Truely important dilema?

# 1 24-07-2003 , 08:13 PM

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this dilema may actually be one of the biggest i have to stand against ,or so i figure..

some of you may know ,i live in Israel ,and as such ,i have to go to the army.. In the army we have a special region, Which involves people at the age of enlisting to the army (18) actually go to The Universty ,to study subject which help the army ,manily Engineering stuff, Medical care, Physics etc.. well ,i am one of the people who got offered.. it's really not fianl ,but i am pretty sure i can get in to the studies of - (I have no idea how to spell it.. so ermm ) studies of aerodynamics, planes ,missiles ,helicopters, etc.. which is pretty superior spot.. usually the army service is 36 months ,but as the army pays nearly 90% of the studies ,you have to sign for 3 more months ,and nearly in 80% you get a second degree untill you fnish your signed up time ,and nearly 80% sign for alot more years.. as they money is VERY decent, and its very quality people ,which i am sure is fun work with .. etc.
So it's minimum 10 years ,and usually more ,which means by the age of 28 ,i get 2 degrees ,6 years of the degree exprience and Commander exprience.. ( as one who goes to does course must be a commander, so you can get admin exprience aswell..).

When you leave the army ,as they say the civilan industry jumps on you, the high tech world ,lots of gigs ,6 years of both the subject and admin exprience.. and you also qualified for the spot ,so you must be pretty smart.. ( just btw its about 800 puplis per year). So i am pretty sure ,what i pick now will actually be my career for life.. I mean why would i chanage when i am 28 after 2 degrees? seems kinda foolish..

I am wondering, what would you do? i mean my dilema is I extremly am intrested in that subject, but offcourse i want to be a 3d Artist..

I am really torn a part..
any tips would be great..
i guess the upside of the army thing ,is you pretty damn safe, your future is pretty safe (nearly 95%+ who dropped after 10 years Have great jobs in high tech all over the world ,including Highly appreicated American teams.. ) also ,the places which the army service is done ,there are bowing and Lockhead workers ,as part of the work team..

the down side is well its not 3d user added image

bah

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# 2 24-07-2003 , 08:15 PM

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oh i forgot to mention I am very much intrested in the aeroplane subject too.. if it would purely the safe future.. i wouldn't even have doubt.

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# 3 24-07-2003 , 08:43 PM

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How old are you now?

grrrr

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# 4 24-07-2003 , 08:45 PM

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got about an year left.

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# 5 24-07-2003 , 09:10 PM

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I was sponsored by the British Army at University (only for the last few years) and joined afterwards, although being a Doctor who chose a surgical speciality I spent a lot of my service outside the army rather than in it as we don't have big military hospitals like some countries. In some places professionals who are in the Army are devalued as second rate but that's not really the case in the UK, fortunately.

I come from a military family with a long history of commissioned service, but I can honestly say it was the best thing I ever did. Plus now I have left (I have been a civilian for about 2 years now) I have my medical career which, by happy coincidence and due to the arrmy sending me to some rather fun places, is further advanced that that of my peers. Best of both worlds.

I know a lot of people slam the armed forces, but I got to find out things about myself I would never have done, travel, get shot at (not a highlight) and gain a great deal of command experience that comes in very handy now.

If the army and a profession coincide it is a marriage made in heaven, but only if you really want to do both the professional and the army part in equal measure, in my view. To be a good professional soldier you have to really want to be one, just like any job really. And you have to want to pursue your profession 100% or you won't get 100% back, imho.

Just my 2 cents as they say.

Last edited by Witchy; 24-07-2003 at 09:15 PM.

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# 6 24-07-2003 , 09:32 PM

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Sorry I did not read the Novel carefully :-) D oit man. When you come out u will be 28. Which is still young. Plus you will be more disciplined.

grrrr

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# 7 25-07-2003 , 01:12 AM

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Shut down your brain for a while and do what your heart tells you user added image

Good luck whatever your choise is...

Kari
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Do a lot, Fail a lot and Learn a lot!

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# 8 25-07-2003 , 01:23 AM

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i was just thinking that being a soldier in israel can mean having lots of probabilities of having to shoot someone or getting shoot yourself (or having to give others the order to do so) (correct me if im wrong, thats just how i percieve it...)

Real life people shooting each other, not a videogame, not seen on tv... (may i mention that i find it a mix between stupid and disgusting?)

I mean, its a completely different thing than being a soldier on the UK where that possibility hardly could come true (unless you actively search it)

How do you feel about that tought?

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# 9 25-07-2003 , 04:26 AM

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Isrealy army I have to say is one of the worlsd best army. Too bad for the palestinians though.

May there be peace one day and the extremists on both sides suffer in hell :-)

grrrr

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# 10 25-07-2003 , 05:40 AM

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offcourse the army fights ~_~
but Army needs technoligy which i think is pretty obvious..
israel is nada of social number comapred to are hostile arab neighbours.. our society counts for 6M which 1M are Muslims (not hostile ones.. well some are manily not.. ).

5Milion people ,which means how many in the army? about 500,000 (just shot a number).. we can't afford to have alot of loss.. We define our army quality, Not quantity..
We cannot rely on having our soldiers fight there soldiers w/out a lead.. how much of army do they have toghter? each one of these countries has milions over milions.. Thus we must make are army not only quality peopole wise ,technoligy wise as well..
Like Israel invented the "Merkava" tank and alot of missiles ,improovments to Amercian planes and alot of special gear for soldiers... we must have the best technoligy..
the army MUST have people with knowledge of phsyices (including everything from quantom phsysics, Nuclear ,Micro .. etc) to Programming ,Alghoritms,engeenring ,Machinery, every thing which is needed for Elite techonligy..

the are like many armies is built out of 90% non-fighting ,only 10% fight.. which is bad ,33% of 18 year old escape they army ,by faking illness etc ,which takes off your army profile.. if its too low they don't enlist you..

We have one of the best air force in the world ( not the best planes.. at all tho) our air force trainning is one of the best.. i know alot of american piltos are sent here to train..
again we cannot rely on quantity ,the amount of pilots per year is nearly 0 ,as the training is SO hard ,and its SO hard to get in the first place ,you need to be very very smart ,phsyicaly fit and mentally as well.. so we need to best of the best ..

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Hope that explains..
if you worry we have plenty of fighters..
including parties like Tanks ,Bombers ,Airforce , Navy, bomb removal on the army field ( they come be4 the actual army i think.. not sure tho) ,eltie squads and plenty more..

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# 11 25-07-2003 , 12:38 PM

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Exactly the point:
Of course YOUR (israelis and americans) army fights...

If woure comfortable with the tough of having to kill someone or contributing in any way to it, then go for it! the career oportunities seem good... And youll get your hands on the bigh expensive toys...

Personally I couldnt be confortable with that togh...

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# 12 25-07-2003 , 12:53 PM

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how do i feel about it?
pretty well..

As one of the Lectures in the special day they had in the universty yestrday he said - " i have helped kill many terroists, and i am damn proud of it ,i wont let any one live who is gonna kill me".

anyways i dont wanna begin a debate on that matter..

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# 13 25-07-2003 , 01:32 PM

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>>I mean, its a completely different thing than being a soldier on the UK where that possibility hardly could come true (unless you actively search it)

Perhaps you would like to hear about my service in NI, Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Kenya etc Dragonfx. Before you make statements about how safe it is to be in the British Army (like Israelis and Americans fight) please do some research as that sort of statement is pretty derogatory to those of us who have served.

The Gulf Wars might have passed you by, they did not for the British soldiers who died in them.

British servicemen and women are currently serving in several conflict zones including Afghanistan and Iraq. You might want to make yourself aware of the facts before you post stuff which people might take as insulting. I don't care if you find the army disgusting, I do care if you post stuff which is untrue to justify your views. If you are missing wars like we have just had in Iraq perhaps it you are basing your views on video games.

Last edited by Witchy; 25-07-2003 at 01:34 PM.

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# 14 25-07-2003 , 03:59 PM

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British servicemen and women are currently serving in several conflict zones including Afghanistan and Iraq. You might want to make yourself aware of the facts before you post stuff which people might take as insulting. I don't care if you find the army disgusting, I do care if you post stuff which is untrue to justify your views. If you are missing wars like we have just had in Iraq perhaps it you are basing your views on video games.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frist of all. Im not trying to offend/insult no one. I´m just trying to debate on and hilight the moral consecuences of that choice.

Yes, what you say its true, there are UK army soldiers (and spanish too) fighting wars. And i was already aware of that fact ans so i expressed it on the post. "Unless you actively search it".

Dont know if in the uk army its exactly like here. But in spain only certain units have possibilities to being sent to a foreing war. And you have to volunteer (and being accepted) to those units. Rest of the army trains/defends county. Hardly you will be sent to a foreing war if youre not in one of those units. (not tellme you cant ask for a unit transfer)

I repeat, Im not tryin to offend you and i must confess that at the time i had not an age to follow conflicts on Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Kenya, etc. Yet i can see the results now. While surely you have done your best to help them, its clear they arent exactly fine.

The wars are started by the politicians, and personally i can see no excuse to start one.
The army then goes and does what has been told to

I Dont want to show disrespect to those that fight and die because they were told so. But dont make me talk of the irak war... (65% of our country still is wondering why our president is supporting it from the beginning) (and i sincerely expec it will show on next elections)
Just some questions:
Where are those imaginary weapons of mass destruction that were the cause to rush for the war ignoring UN resolutions?
What is the US transition/reconstruction plan for the country? noone has seen a serious one yet...
Why the only major gubernamental structure well defended from the beginning and thus non pillaged was the petrol ministery?

Additionaly
Where there any real connection between Al Qaeda and Sadam? if so, what proof of it was presented?

Last edited by dragonfx; 25-07-2003 at 05:16 PM.

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# 15 25-07-2003 , 04:11 PM

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I'm not going to argue with you about justifications for wars as it's not relevant to this thread. I don't like wars and conflict either, despite your implication. You seem to imagine I am going to justify war to you because I served in the Armed Forces- it is clear you are blinded by your dislike of the military into thinking we are all some sort of warmongers who want to excuse the actions of dumb politicians. I suggest you ask your politicians the questions you pose, I cannot see why you ask me, unless you have decided I am pro war, and that, while a pleasant stereotype, is both untrue and rather sad.

My point was that, before you devalue the service that soldiers from specific countries (and you named mine) give, you should check your facts. What happens in your country does not happen in others. We don't get a choice where we choose to serve so please don't project your views from your country onto other peoples. Your point on 'actively searching it' is, frankly, nonsense.

You might not like what people did in the countries I served in, that's up to you, frankly I could not care less. I am not old enough to remember WW2 but I don't devalue the people who served in it. Have an anti war debate with someone who is interested in dealing with your slightly unpleasant stereotypes, I am afraid that's not me.

>>Dont know if in the uk army its exactly like here.

Yes, that's abundantly clear. But hey, why bother with the facts when a nasty stereotype will do.

I am sure soldiers in your country feel proud to serve people like you.

Last edited by Witchy; 25-07-2003 at 04:14 PM.

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A Truely important dilema?

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