Help with Faces

# 1 18-06-2012 , 10:03 PM

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Hey All,

I'm still following along with the "Introducing Autodesk Maya 2012" book and am in chapter 6, pg 247 where I have just added a hole via the boolean>difference (tri's not quads). then i select the faces and then edit mesh> Add divisions. I however, get the picture that you see. It appears there are faces over faces and just deleting them I think can cause other issues, but will do if that's the only way.

Can you let me know what I might do to avoid this. I'm just doing what the book said, just don't know where I went wrong.

Thanks!

Sean user added image

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# 2 18-06-2012 , 10:50 PM

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From the image, it looks like the normals might be messed up.

Are you sure there are faces on top of faces? Try hardening the normals if not.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

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# 3 18-06-2012 , 11:41 PM

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Im with ND...hard to tell though. To be honest though mate...if you havent used booleans much...I would steer clear of them until your comfortable using them. They can be tricky to use as Im sure a lot of people here will tell you. Have a look for ctbram's tut on how to create holes...a lot easier and less mesh editing. The way you place a boolean is critical to avoid too many added divisions.

cheers bullet

bullet1968

"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes

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# 4 19-06-2012 , 03:33 PM

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I'd have to see the book and what they are trying to teach but from what I am seeing they are teaching you to make a really messy model lol. I see some really horrific topology and as most on this site know I am a big advocate of using booleans.

From what I am looking at it is examples like this that give booleans their bad reputation.

Here are some of things I see in that image that concern me. First, the boolean cuts through a number of edges that could have easily been moved prior to the boolean operation which is creating some very bad geometry. Second the number of sides in the boolean cylinder used to create the hole are way to high if the model is intended to be smoothed (after a great deal of cleanup). The geo in general is very irregular with poor edge flow.

I am going to the bookstore this afternoon and they have a selection of autodesk Maya books and if I can find your book I will see what they are trying to do and post some tips.

The artifacts look to me to be caused by normal issues. To check select the entire object and harden all the normals mesh>normals>harden. Also, turn off two-sided lighting to make sure the inner faces of the boolean'd cylinder are not flipped.

Once I can determine what the book is trying to teach I will post up a short video to show the proper way to do what I think you are trying to do.

-Rick

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 5 19-06-2012 , 09:10 PM

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I have this book and ive got to say its probably the only project i didnt do. (the wagon, right?) I did learn the very basics of maya from this book but Ive got to say watching many other tutorials got me where i am now in maya. (not great but above average as far as modeling goes) As far as the boolean operation in that tut goes, he doesnt clean it up and is satisfied in what results it gives him. Like i said, the book INTRODUCES you to maya, it doesnt really delve into alot of detail. That being said I would recommend the book to learn the basics, then move on to the next level. Good Luck! user added image

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# 6 19-06-2012 , 09:50 PM

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I just tried this maneuver and it worked fine dude. I dont really do things like this but it worked as far as what the book says. shrug....
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Last edited by clocker1; 19-06-2012 at 09:55 PM.

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# 7 20-06-2012 , 12:55 AM

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Crap like this always happens to me. If it's breakable, I can do it.

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# 8 20-06-2012 , 12:56 AM

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it works clocker but you havent had to smooth the mesh post operation...which is fine depending on the detail required etc. If you still needed to smooth the geo...yours would end up like srlakes. I will point out turning off 2 sided lighting has become standard for me thanks to ctbram....remember it!

As ctbram has pointed out, the edge loops need to be moved out of the way of the EDGES of the boolean. This creates horrid geo if you dont and causes lots of mesh editing. There are verts that need merging and some loops deleted entirely. Lke I said and ctbram will attest, booleans NEED to be thought out and applied properly, thats why they get a bad name. You cant just bang in a boolean operation and walk away from it.....similar to UV mapping...you cant just unfold something without some planning and work.

cheers bullet

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bullet1968

"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes

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# 9 20-06-2012 , 12:58 AM

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Thanks Rick. I'd probably have to show what I did, but I did pretty much what the book says. I may not have the edges(from the insert edge loop tool) exactly at .001 mm, but he doesn't give that exact of a placement, so it to the best of what I saw.

when I click on some of those faces they act like there are other faces under it, and even when I click on one and delete it, the same thing occurs. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

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# 10 20-06-2012 , 12:59 AM

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yeah the introducing maya 2012 book.

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# 11 20-06-2012 , 01:17 AM

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pics

Hey,

here's the pics from "Introducing Autodesk Maya 2012, by Dariush Derakhshani". I followed along, and apparently am not as talented as some of you are. He said nothing about "moving" edges or worrying about where to place them.

This is the problem with tutorials, many of the "teachers" take for granted little things and so the results are like what happened to mine.

I thank you all though for your help. I just want to learn this properly and not be messy. I started FullSail back in October and learned some things NOT to do but still wanted to follow along with the book, and I have learned some things that I havent learned at FS yet. However, the book also uses tris and in school they discourage tris.

Anywhoo, thanks again.

Sean

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# 12 20-06-2012 , 01:25 AM

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Well his method works fine Sean IF you do NOT need to smooth the geometry afterwards.....nevertheless having hanging verts like I showed in clockers image is not a good thing in any case.

Talent has nothing to do with it mate...its just a matter of experience (aka Rick) and having learnt some of the pitfalls. I think talent is an overused word...we all get better by hard work and study. As with the tuts in books etc, they are there to expose you to some of the techniques and basics, they arent a be all end all..LOL...hence the trial and error and great site like this to get some help.

I dont have that book but it would be interesting to see some of the stuff.

cheers bullet

bullet1968

"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes

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# 13 20-06-2012 , 05:11 AM

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I have an old copy of the book when it was covering Maya 5. The book is made for beginners, and won't teach you best practices, such as triangles vs quads, as it will confuse novices.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

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# 14 20-06-2012 , 05:58 AM

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Yeah I could not find the book so I was not able to see what he was trying to do. I did see the follow up stuff and I think it's really bad to even have that project in the book.

It is bad examples like this that teach new modelers really bad practices with NURBS and they create really poor topology and the worst possible way to use booleans.

Then booleans get a bad rep and it's not booleans that are the problem it's books teaching bad techniques to beginners.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 15 20-06-2012 , 07:35 PM

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Thanks all! Having taken basic modeling classes already, I was aware of some of the 'mistakes' but not being advanced yet, I like to keep an open mind to different strategies. I did however notice the errors of modeling with tris as our instructors want us to avoid tris in all of our modeling.

I am still learning ALOT, but remember I'm definitely a newbie. I love learning and thanks to you all for giving me support.

Sean

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