AVP THREAD (CONTAINS SPOILERS!!!) - Page 2 - Simply Maya User Community

# 16 16-08-2004 , 04:34 PM

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Originally posted by Mantat
As a matter of fact, I challenge you to find a movie with a better use of music & sound effects.

Originally Posted by

The list would be way too long to post here. Besides, a movie that depends on its music and sound effects alone isn't a very good movie and would only benefit the blind. Gotta have story. As George Lucas once said, "A story with special effects is interesting, but a special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing." user added image

IMHO, I agree with Kev on Resident Evil. IT SUCKED! Seems the 'game movies' just aren't cut out to be what they should be. Hell, look at Final Fantasy. What the hell did that movie have to do with the game? huh? HUH?!

Kev... I don't think DOOM falls into the movies catagorie. user added image

But I still disagree about the game though. I've been playing it again on Nightmare and it's even more of a challenge than on Veteran. When those damn ticks and those baby things come out but I don't see them, my skin crawls. user added image

Dave Baer
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Digital Media Arts College
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# 17 16-08-2004 , 05:23 PM

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look like we are on a disagrement on that topic! Exemple: the psycho shower scene was much more intense because of the sound effects, the screaming of the girls and visuals are secondary. Yet, this is a classic and totaly rely on the sound for delivery.

Bad exemple: Van Helsing. horrible sounds that are way too loud and totaly destroy the mood.

Music and sound effects are integral part of a movie. And a good sound track has to fit the visual too so its just not for the blind but for all the audience.

Anyways, I agree that a good movie has to have a good scenario but I think that there are different ways to deliver a movie according to its type and the feeling you want to give. Ex: in a comedy, scenario is not important, you want good jokes.

Of course, all element (scripts, scenario, mosuc, fx, etc) are important and can contribute to the success of a movie, its just that according to the type of film, their order of importance vary much.

Personally, I put scenario first then script, music, sound fx then visual fx. But for horror, I rather like to have sound fx in the first place closely followed by scenario. I guess everyone is different but you cant expect every movie to be top notch on every aspect.

Finaly, I have to agree that Final Fantasy was a real joke, the visuals were nice but it was 0 on every single other aspect which made in a total flop.

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# 18 17-08-2004 , 03:08 AM

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Well you're talking about just one scene in an entire movie. Your last comment was that the music and SFX for the entire movie is what makes it. That's a big difference. But my comment still stands that music and sound effects alone do not make a great movie.

Yes, the Psycho sequence worked best as it was. Hitchcock himself even said that he could have shot the scene with all the action, but it was even more effective 'psychologically' not showing it.

Please defing your meaning of 'scenario'. Aside from it's own meaning, its not a term used widely in the film industry. Maybe understanding that would help me understand you easier.

Dave Baer
Professor of Digital Arts
Digital Media Arts College
Boca Raton, Florida
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# 19 17-08-2004 , 03:34 AM

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Sorry, I guess scenario doesnt translate into english, my bad :-S So here are some definition (from my mind):
scenario: the story, plot, etc...
script: the text said by the actors

So Resident Evil doesnt have much of either but the sound and music help a lot in creating the mood of the movie. They are both made by Marilyn (sp?) Manson and I think he did an awesome job. Actualy, he should just stop making CDs and do this ;-)

Music and sound help much more to create a mood in a scene than anything else, at least for me.

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# 20 17-08-2004 , 10:50 PM

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A film with all round great elements… Kill Bill Vol. 1&2

A perfect example of a very good story, fantastic dialogue, great cinematography, great action and an amazing score.

Agree

Yeah, but no but yeah but no....

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# 21 18-08-2004 , 12:02 AM

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Tarrentino breaks all the rules of cinematography yet still produces a good film. user added image

Mantat: I hope you never go deaf otherwise you would never enjoy another movie. user added image

While music and sound are an integral part of any good film, again, they don't make a good story. Before movies had sound, they relied heavily on visual elements such as lighting, camera angles, and action. The actor had to be able to tell an entire story just by his/her actions and expressions. The mood had to be set by the colors and lighting of the film. Directors don't film a movie with the sound effects pre-made and recorded while filming so they have to rely on camera work, colors, lighting, and sets to deliver the mood of the film. Sound is added later as an enhancement to help the visuals along.

An exercise I give my students is to listen to about 10-15 minutes of a movie with their eyes closed. No picture, no visual elements - just sound. They then write down their experience. Then go back and watch the same 10-15 minutes of the movie with the sound off - picture only. Then write down the experience again. I never get the same review for each session.

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Dave Baer
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# 22 18-08-2004 , 02:05 AM

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Well im gonna vent my frustrations.

Paul Anderson is dead to me. Mortal Kombat was Marginaly good, Resident evil had a good start but went horribly wrong,
but he went to far with AVP. In my opinion he turned two of the greatest Sci-fi Franchise ( R ) into a puppet show, R+R DOES NOT EQUAL PG-13! I being a Young Film Director ( & Tech and Effects Director ) sat back at what could have been a Transfusion to the great series but sadly I belive Paul Anderson killed it ( I don't belive Ill see Predator 3 till I make it user added image

) ya it's just a movie but it has sentemental value to me and im gonna tell you why
( remeber im venting out steam) I was Born May 7th 1987, 3 months later my daddy :o took me to see predator in our run down movie theater... to make a long story short Ive been a alien and predator fan ever since ( yes im a wacko but no worse then you starwars yuppies!) and to see such little action between the two is a crime against humanity ( Literaly user added image

) what went wrong? first off Paul Anderson didn't fight to make it R ( he sissed out) second he went off in to many directions and made to many promises. #1 promise he didn't fulfill was detailing the predator ( but he did detail alien hmmm.) If I rember Predator had floresn't green which glows right? only the CG pred blood was floresnt ( looked cheap 2) the final predators death blood was crap green
The facial features? the pred looked like a mutant retard ya his jaw moved fluently ( unlike pred 2 ) but when you make it look like an incomptent moron what do you achive? proving your audience has to watch what you provide and like it? No! proves your an idiot you didn't watch over the art deparment! ( which any director who is working with such detail must do) I think he told them " I want it scary but not to scare children" Artist "um ok come back next friday I might have somthing" PA " Excellent" Artist " Hey jebb bring out that old mask we made for tillow the clown" ok im getting overboard but I mean the cover helmets/masks looked cool but looking cool also has to look right
in a few seens you could tell the mask was slipping or not on right
( Like I said if your a director pushing a movie like this you got to pay as much attention to the acting aswell as to detail)

Also When The final pred took off his wrist bomb ( WTF?) I mean it was bad enough for him to take on a human side kick! Japanese Samurai would never toss away there cermonail Seppeku blades nor would they fight next to a peasent (when there trying to prove themself), He as a teen pred was suppose to take on the charge of radecating the alien just like his predecors or die trying that was the purpose to move on in pred clan.

Im getting more steamed up, for 60 MILLION DOLLARS! I could have made you all proud. PA had a somewhat decent cast he could have changed the whole female sceanario ( I think he tried to create her in ripleys fashion honestly) I did like how he had the preds at a disadvantage because lets face it preds would have owned with their shoulder cannons, But! what erks me is the hero alien and aliens acide blood, the aliens in general were way to smart way to quick ( in birth process) - back to the blood and teen preds, Preds ( in book) had specail armour and gauntlets, weapons, etc.... that countered the alien blood so that made me mad ( but in kind of a way I liked it as Im not bias to preds or alien ( although Im leaning torwards preds in this one) and pred is suppose to take of head and Either wear it or carry it on spike or in his back pocket :p

He should have went with 5 preds instead of the 3 would have made "Enough pred and alien death to go around" -PA ya right

Well im gonna stop now because im rambling and white foam seems to becoming out of my mouth, sorry if none of this made sense and sorry if I offended or bored any of you. Thx

Last edited by Krull; 18-08-2004 at 02:16 AM.

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# 23 18-08-2004 , 05:57 AM

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Well the movie didn't stray too far from the original AvP idea that Darkhorse laid out in front of them. A few changes to make it more modern day but I'll agree that PA totally destroyed it.

Originally from The Darkhorse Comic ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR, the original story goes as follows:

Small cattle colony (with a full research facility) on some outpost of a planet. They're going about their business of raising cattle, planting crops, and looking at dirt samples (I guess). The Preds, looking for a place to hold the hunt, drop some eggs there, taken from a Queen they hold on their ship (shackled somewhat like they had in the movie). The cattle happen upon the eggs and facehuggers ensue. Cattle are rounded back into their pens back at the farm. In the meantime, the Preds are landing and getting ready for the hunt. One of the farmers is riding on some kind of hover bike, out for some reason I forget, happens to come across the Preds as they're getting ready. He startles the Preds and they chase after him. One of them jump on his bike with him and they ride off together away from the other Preds. The bike crashes, the two go flying, both are knoced out.

Enter the other farmers... They capture the Pred, take him back to their farm, constrain him and begin to study him.

In the meantime, the Aliens are breeding and have overtaken one of the cattle barns and people are beginning to come up missing. Farmers investigate, come across the 'infestation' all hell breaks loose.

Enter the other Preds...

Preds and Aliens fight, humans die, etc. etc. Preds are losing. An idea from one of the farmers/scientists... "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". So they let the captured Pred go. The hero Pred goes out and kills a bunch of Aliens. One of the scientist/farmers is about to become brain food for the Aliens (it's a chick), Hero Pred comes to the rescue. She regains her stature and helps Pred to kill off some Aliens. Pred snaps off an Alien finger and marks chickie poo on her forehead. This is where they team up.

They kill off just about all of the Aliens except for mama. She's not too happy, but then she never is. Queeny and Hero Pred battle, Hero Pred is injured, Queeny is about to finish him off, chickie comes in with Hero pred's spear and impales Queeny. She dies, Pred dies but before he does, he gives chickie one of his blades. Chick lives. Other Preds come and take the dead Pred away. They spot her, are about to kill her when Elder Pred recognizes the mark. They leave her alone and leave.

Cut to a year or so later.

Chick shack. Above the entrance to her shack is the head of the Queen, proudly mounted on the roof. Chick is in her shack, doing whatever she does. She hears a wierd sound, looks out and sees Pred's ship flying overhead off into the distance, she notices things being dropped from the ship (eggs). She grabs the Pred blade given to her by Hero Pred last time, changes into this body tight cat suit (looks kewl even in the comic book user added image

). Reaches around back and cuts off the end of her long hair (which she had tied up) and her hair falls into short dreds. She runs off to go hunt some Aliens with the Preds.

End of story.

How close is that to PA's interpretation, huh? I've always said, "If they make AvP they have to make it from this book." I think if PA would have done that it would have been a great movie. Next thing you know, he'll be directing the next series of STAR WARS films. user added image

Dave Baer
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Digital Media Arts College
Boca Raton, Florida
dbaer@dmac.edu

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# 24 18-08-2004 , 07:10 AM

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Never! I don't think George Lucas would stoop that low....
A quick question im asking people do you think AVP helped there own series or killed it? ( it really all depends on box office)

DarkHorse if I rember correctly had more then on AVP if im correct they had one that was similar the summer milts.

btw I always like summer milts version of AVP and ill break as simply as I can.

it's the future but b4 ripleys birth, earth is advanced enough for long space travel, an expedition team is sent to a planet rich with minerals etc... reasons. Team gets there, accedently sets off becon to preds, they find out that the planet is a battle ground.
Scentists find out they have triggered the beacon, scientists want to stay and meet ET user added image

Marine protection says our momma
( Core ) didn't raise no fool. They all go back in space ship (which is huge ( reminds me of lost in space movie where they had the environment ship that had the mean spiders.) Preds park there even bigger ship ( cloaked ) right nexted to human ship. They huff and puff and blow the door down, Marines get ichy trigger fingers, Scientists pleed with them no no let them play with your skulls!. marines don't take nothing and they fight the preds but preds (cloaked) whip the lot of em, capture scientists actually put the face huggers on them with there bare hands ( which I always thought was cool) and then they spread out ( there were more marines playing garilla warfare) preds strip themselves of armour only use primitive weapons take off shoulder cannons and doing a ritual take off there masks.

To make this long story short

The preds eventually win ( at the cost of many on both sides) but then the remaining marines come in and fight ( this time they had mechs not like matrixs , they would have so owned with those.) preds start fighting toe to toe but become no match ( as they can't cloak) but that's the end because Summer Milts website got canned. Canned? ya this story was never published because Summer Milts (Alias obivously) never had rights :bandit: I assume he got sued by darkhorse ( they I belive had another AVP series running were they fought marines and had aliens or somthing it was not as good as Milts I was told) and marvel (he had a x-men mimic ) and had to shut down his awsome website.

Honestly I think that would have been a better AVP

( I made up my own ending user added image

Preds get defeated but the last one standing clicks his wrist bomb and as dieing he chants Asta la vista Baby and BOOOM! there goes both ships )