Modeling problem

# 1 19-08-2005 , 05:03 AM

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hello!
I am trying to make a human hand! I first create the five fingers and the base of the hand in nurbs culinders, then i converted them into poligon choosing CONTROL POINTS and then i merged the vertises at the union spot of the objects so i can create i fool hand!
The geometry is clean and identicly to all the fingers but in two of the fingers when i perfom SMOUTH to the hand at the union spot keeps a hard poligon geometry! The other two fingers work just fine! I think i have done something totaly stypid but i can find what! I will apreciate any help you can give me!
I have attach the rendered hand so you can see what i mean!

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# 2 19-08-2005 , 10:06 AM

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try turning on border edges in polygon display on your preferences and take a look at you model then I suspect eiter your vertices arent merged or there are some extra edges there for no reason

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# 3 19-08-2005 , 11:10 AM

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Thank very much for your reply...
All the vertices are merged! I turned on border edges as you said on poligon on the preference window and it didnt do nothing! I suck! But i think that you are right because when i try to delete those edges the program says that i cant because they are border edges! On the other two to fingers i can delete the edges simply because they are not border edges! So i have 5 questions for you:
1) What are border edges?
2) When are created?
3) Where are created?
4) Why i cant delete them?
5) How can i fix the problem?
Thank you for your time!

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# 4 19-08-2005 , 01:01 PM

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1) What are border edges?
Border edges are edges to a polygon that form the very edge of your object. If the edge in question has a polygon face on both its sides then it is a plain edge. If it only has a polygon face on one side, it is a border edge.

Where "O" = a polygon face
Where "||" = a polygon edge

OOOOO||OOOOO
OOOOO||OOOOO = a normal edge
OOOOO||OOOOO
OOOOO||OOOOO

OOOOO||
OOOOO|| = a border edge
OOOOO||
OOOOO||

2) When are created?
They are created either when using a 2d shape, such as a polygon plane, or when a faces are removed from a poly object, leaving an sharp single line edge

3) Where are created?
Basically at the edges of your polygons. In the maya prefs you can set how bold (and obvious) border edges are, so making them easy to see. I cant remember exactly where they are, but if you do a quick search of the forums you should be able to find a guide of how to change the 'border edge thickness'

4) Why i cant delete them?
They form the very edge/end of you shape, you cant delete an edge as it is connected to a polygon face. Each face must have an edge - if you want to remove the edge, you will have to delete the whole face or........

5) How can i fix the problem?
This problem normally occurs when vertices havent been merged, 2 vertices may lie directly on top of each other, occupying the exact same 3d space, but they still count as 2 separate vertices. They will need to be merged.

If i was you I would
a) change the thickness of the border edges to make them real easy to see
b) turn on X-ray
c) look where each border edges lies, look at the vetices on the end of an edge.
d) reset the settings of the merge vertices tool
e) merge the vertices that form the border edges together.

I hope that helps, and is understandable. Anyone else please feel free to correct any mistakes I may have made user added image

::::EDIT::::

If your still really stuck, you can post a screenshot of the hand in wireframe mode, which will help find out whats going on user added image

Last edited by azimuth; 19-08-2005 at 01:03 PM.

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# 5 19-08-2005 , 04:39 PM

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If border edges still arent showing goto your custom polygon display menu with your object se;lected and you can turn on border edges through that set the size to around 3 for noticeable edges but are easy to work with I have attached an image of where you have border edges make sure all these verts are snapped together and then merge them also
If that doesn't work try a quick POLYGON -> CLEANUP if yor settings set to select and cleanup and non manifold geometry if it selects anything just deselect it and leave it and it should be fine

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# 6 21-08-2005 , 12:46 AM

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Thank you for your replies...
I have merdge all the vertises and it still dosent work. I double checked if there are any vertises lying around unmurged and there arent! i have attached an other picture with wireframe on to have a better view of the problem! On the left fingure it shows the probem cleary!The right fingure works just fine! I tried polugon cleanup and it all looks Greek to me and i am from Greece, imagine how that sucks! I tried more then a few combinations on polugon cleanup with no luck!

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# 7 21-08-2005 , 01:40 AM

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Can't they be adjusted manually?

Nobody felt like avenging your death. Sorry.

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# 8 21-08-2005 , 11:51 AM

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Location: Matapedia,QC!!!...The Place that should not be :p

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Consider reading the NURB lessons in Maya 6 or over.. I'm not sure if it's the hand lesson in the past versions but if you want you can add me to you MSN or give me your email to send you the tutorial. My email is sambambigelow@hotmail.com if you want to add me. I'm a real noob to and I still have hand probs with the hand like you except for the finger nails.

Co-Creator of Infernus Creations formerly known as Elite Unit 5.

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# 9 21-08-2005 , 02:04 PM

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From what I can see from the wire Im going to hazard a guess at what happend.

1) The simple poly shapes were combined and (some of) the vertex were merged where nessecary.

2) The model was then smoothed and rendered, leading to the issuse that have been raised.

3) A couple of us then went on about border edges and merging vertices.

@zabulus did you go back and merge some vertices (that you may have missed first time), while the model was still smoothed?

I'm clutching at straws a bit, but I'm not sure how an already smooth polygon handles merging of vertices - there may be chance that it creates static sharp lines between the edges, instead of the smooth skin like look of the fingers that actually render ok.

This is just me, but I would try and get the model back to a non-smoothed state - a simple blocky polygon - then make sure all the vertices are merged at that point in time.

After all the vertices are merged and you have one solid clean (blocky) polygon model, then smooth the whole thing off and see how it looks.

Its just an idea, but I would give it a go.

Maybe these links might help
Remove a smooth Link 1
Remove a smooth Link 2

Last edited by azimuth; 21-08-2005 at 02:07 PM.

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