Complex UV Layout in Maya
Over the last couple of years UV layout in Maya has changed for the better. In this course we're going to be taking a look at some of those changes as we UV map an entire character
# 46 21-11-2011 , 10:28 PM
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SilverFeather,

Really the trick is just persistence. You have redone this head and it looks much better than your first attempt and if the timeline is any indication you have become exponentially better since this one is not even close to the one month mark. Many things just take time and repetition. I first learned C4D since the Maya version wasn't sold in 64bit on the mac when I was starting out. Since then I have dumped the mac and built a PC. Do I regret learning that instead of the industry juggernaut of Maya. Nah, just a different path and at the end of the road all apps are the same at this point. Maya is the most complete of all packages in my mind. C4D just being easier. These guys on this forum will help you out though and know what they are doing. That is why I come here over the C4D forums since those guys can mainly only create simple text effects and they abuse the mograph module like it is the holy grail to job opportunities. I never liked the mograph stuff and always loved the character and rigging side of things. On the opposite end you get the reverse at CGSociety. They are good but chalk full of negativity (here and there). But many state that the most fragile form thought is creativity and inspiration. You must build it up and not kill it. Just keep at it and as you said before keep the poly counts low. There is a wealth of info out there and abuse the resources....

btw, thanks for the free hand tut jay. Too bad it only has 13,000 hits because it is exceptionally well done...

best

Collin Bishop

When I have something set on my mind and I really like doing that, I never give up.
If it's just something that wasn't good enough, I start over and try to improve. I'd like to learn a bit out of everything, rather than just specialize in one thing and neglect the others. (Not sure if that means being a jack of all trades, but surely not being a pro in all domains). I understand that some love what they do and learn everything about it and that's what makes them happy. My first friend that knew how to model barely did any animation, didn't use any special tools, but managed to make awesome art. I wish I could contact her again, but haven't heard from her in 2 years now.

You made me smile at the part with "abusing monograph module like it is the holy grail." user added image
Indeed I do not regret spending time on 3ds max either. It helped with getting adjusted to Maya, which follows almost same basic rules, only different places for tools and some good stuff such as fur (my 3ds max 7 had no such thing, but there was a way to copy a mesh with particles and make fur). I never tried Cinema but probably some day I might test it. Though I will focus on Maya for a few years. I tend to learn along the way, not by using tools randomly.
I enjoy this forum. It's like an epic art gallery but also a place where you can learn.

One question about the mac vs windows machine: Which one is better? Someone told me that mac renders faster. Not sure what to believe though.

Cheers Chavfister, but dont thank me mate, thank Nilla and Dave they are the ones who make this all possible. 13000 or just 13, makes no odds to me. If any one person gets something from a tutorial I've done then I'm happy in the fact I have helped them out.

Yeah CGSociety...to edgey and somewhat complacent with heads so far up their own arses you can barely see their legs sticking out.


Silverfeather: Nilla isnt assuming you want to be a professional. She is using them as an example: that few professionals make movies by themselves because of the tasks involved in CG...thats all.

Jay

Oh, well I understand that it's hard work to do on your own.
Long ago, I saw a documentary on something similar about someone making a movie on their own, I mean completely on their own, making the music and voices and animation (though not in 3D) all by himself and he was saying just how hard it is.
The only thing I'm trying (though I still need directions or suggestions) to do on my own is the 3D modeling and animation part. (and some of the music too). The voice acting will be done by my friends and maybe some music too.
I know some people who just download some of the harder stuff already made, which is something that just doesn't impress me. I'd rather know that I worked on something than to just download it all and do nothing at all but move a few bones and record it or download a whole city or stuff like that.
I just want to know that all the effort will end up into something at the very least nice.


Last edited by SilverFeather; 21-11-2011 at 10:54 PM.
# 47 21-11-2011 , 11:15 PM
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[QUOTE=SilverFeather;329179]

One question about the mac vs windows machine: Which one is better? Someone told me that mac renders faster. Not sure what to believe though.

QUOTE]

The reason they were saying this is because of dual Xeons that are typically in the MacPro's. The price doesn't justify the power though and you can easily do this on a board with two slots. I personally used the macs because I learned Avid initally and then FCP on the Mac. It wasn't until I got fed up with limited options in 3d packages and the final atrocity known as FCPX that I switched over. I am done with macs as my desktop and only use it for my laptop. They are still very good in that regard...

# 48 21-11-2011 , 11:30 PM
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The reason they were saying this is because of dual Xeons that are typically in the MacPro's. The price doesn't justify the power though and you can easily do this on a board with two slots. I personally used the macs because I learned Avid initally and then FCP on the Mac. It wasn't until I got fed up with limited options in 3d packages and the final atrocity known as FCPX that I switched over. I am done with macs as my desktop and only use it for my laptop. They are still very good in that regard...

So the usual home pc is medium for this job?
I don't have many resources though, a 3GHz processor with 2 cores, a single PCX card with 1 GB (unable to crossfire) and 4 GB RAM on 32 bit. Could go on a 64 bit system but I'm a bit worried about what programs will run on it, though I could max out the 8 GB RAM I'm allowed to put on this pc.


Last edited by SilverFeather; 21-11-2011 at 11:35 PM.
# 49 22-11-2011 , 12:25 AM
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This is gonna be a question suited more for Maya users. The one caveate that I have seen that determines the stability of C4D so well is that it doesn't incorporate history. Now this handicaps it to some degree but the stability of the program is miles ahead of most because of this feature it lacks. So hit them up on the possibilities of the 64bit version on these specs. I know people who run dual cores as renderfarms but my expertise in this regard is quite limited past my own apps functionality. I know I ran a PowerPC chip on cinema 64bit back in the day and I believe it was a 2.7GHz and I pushed the RAM to 8Gb. My card was just whatever came in the mac. So you can run C4D off that setup ofr sure but Maya is a big ? in my book. I am just gonna shut up because it took me 100 words to say I don't know about Maya doing it. Ask someone else....

# 50 22-11-2011 , 12:35 AM
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This is gonna be a question suited more for Maya users. The one caveate that I have seen that determines the stability of C4D so well is that it doesn't incorporate history. Now this handicaps it to some degree but the stability of the program is miles ahead of most because of this feature it lacks. So hit them up on the possibilities of the 64bit version on these specs. I know people who run dual cores as renderfarms but my expertise in this regard is quite limited past my own apps functionality. I know I ran a PowerPC chip on cinema 64bit back in the day and I believe it was a 2.7GHz and I pushed the RAM to 8Gb. My card was just whatever came in the mac. So you can run C4D off that setup ofr sure but Maya is a big ? in my book. I am just gonna shut up because it took me 100 words to say I don't know about Maya doing it. Ask someone else....

Ok, thanks for the info on C4D though.
So what computer specs do other people have around here? What was the longest render of a single frame of your work and on Software or Mental Ray? What effects did it include?
I'm asking this just to get a general idea of how much I'll have to wait for each frame to render with certain effects. Probably lighting effects will slow it down (such as shadows, glows, certain paint effects).

Also, what's the use of Maya Hardware 2.0? It seems to avoid rendering stuff such as hair.

# 51 22-11-2011 , 11:13 AM
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I never said I wanted to be a professional. I just want to reach the medium level of a 3D animator.
I know, it won't be easy, but it's a dream of mine for a long time to create animation.

Like Jay said I was using the pro's as an example. My point was to focus on the thing you're interested in, if you want to tell stories and animate you should do this but instead of trying to model, texture light and rig you can use the resources that are already there. Maya's nice because there's so many good rigs available, making a simple rig for posing is not too hard but making a rig that animates well is really tough and it's not a beginner task. Making a character model that deforms correctly when animated is also difficult and takes practice. Then there's lighting, cinematography, storyboards and a whole hoard of things that require a massive amount of knowledge.

The main problem regardless of the skills is rendering times. We were just talking about Hooked, if you look in the end credits it says 22 minutes/frame, these guys know what they're doing and they have the best hardware on the market. If you used 25 fps for a 5 minute short you'd need 7500 frames*22 min, one machine rendering 24/7 would spit out 72 frames a day so it would take about 4 months to render. And this is assuming nothing breaks and disregarding the actual production time and caching simulations which can take as long as the rendering itself. There's a good reason for why people use flash.

Even if there's not much of a 3d industry in Romania it doesn't mean you can't work on a project with other people online, or make a living as a freelancer. I love this project it's been running for several years and hundreds of people have helped out. The thing about joining something like this is that it will help you make connections and gain experience even if your working on someone else's idea and the people you'd get to know while working on these things might be the people who will be willing to make you help your idea come true. And if you get to a point where you have 5-6 people doing a short together you've just added a lot of hardware and expertise which makes it more likely you'll succeed with your dream than if you work in isolation trying to do the job of six.

Devils Angels & Dating Autodesk 3December Presentation - YouTube

And Jay, you're the artistic star don't be so modest user added image

# 52 22-11-2011 , 12:42 PM
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Like Jay said I was using the pro's as an example. My point was to focus on the thing you're interested in, if you want to tell stories and animate you should do this but instead of trying to model, texture light and rig you can use the resources that are already there. Maya's nice because there's so many good rigs available, making a simple rig for posing is not too hard but making a rig that animates well is really tough and it's not a beginner task. Making a character model that deforms correctly when animated is also difficult and takes practice. Then there's lighting, cinematography, storyboards and a whole hoard of things that require a massive amount of knowledge.

The main problem regardless of the skills is rendering times. We were just talking about Hooked, if you look in the end credits it says 22 minutes/frame, these guys know what they're doing and they have the best hardware on the market. If you used 25 fps for a 5 minute short you'd need 7500 frames*22 min, one machine rendering 24/7 would spit out 72 frames a day so it would take about 4 months to render. And this is assuming nothing breaks and disregarding the actual production time and caching simulations which can take as long as the rendering itself. There's a good reason for why people use flash.

Even if there's not much of a 3d industry in Romania it doesn't mean you can't work on a project with other people online, or make a living as a freelancer. I love this project it's been running for several years and hundreds of people have helped out. The thing about joining something like this is that it will help you make connections and gain experience even if your working on someone else's idea and the people you'd get to know while working on these things might be the people who will be willing to make you help your idea come true. And if you get to a point where you have 5-6 people doing a short together you've just added a lot of hardware and expertise which makes it more likely you'll succeed with your dream than if you work in isolation trying to do the job of six.

Devils Angels & Dating Autodesk 3December Presentation - YouTube

And Jay, you're the artistic star don't be so modest user added image

Yes I saw that one, it looked awesome and also I loled when the octopus started beatboxing X))
Well, if I'd download the resources, they won't look similar to what I want (though I could modify them but it just doesn't seem fair).

Working with others online also requires being here when needed, which I can never be sure of as I have to come and go at random from the pc or sometimes the city.

Fps can be controlled though and modified later on with video editing software, so even if I can't get near 24 fps, I could edit that. I won't be using a ton of effects either, I usually find a way around things. The lighting is something I'll have to check out though. On 3ds max it was easy to set shadows and lighting up so that it's rendering fast and looks realistic at the same time. Not sure if they have that alternative in Maya. The story boards will either be done by me or another friend who wanted to do them at first. Cinematography... I don't know, that's what I'll probably study in college once I'm done with scenario writing, but that will cut my free time available for 3-4 years probably.

I'm still stubborn to try though, I don't give up until I see that I can't go on at all. Also, for rendering I could also ask 2 friends that have even better pcs to do the job while it's night here and I can't. That could half the work time.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out, but I won't give up yet.

# 53 22-11-2011 , 01:50 PM
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Added a bit more detail to the face (on the sides of the mouth), thinking of trying the ears now.
Is it a good idea to extrude the eyelids so that they will be thicker? I did that before but didn't save.

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# 54 22-11-2011 , 01:58 PM
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Good thing to be stubborn, persistence will get the job done user added image And you don't need to be online all the time, nothing would get done if that was the case, you get assigned a portion of a project like animating a sequence or modeling a specific character. I mentioned these types of projects because they would give you the opportunity to work with senior artists and draw from their experience which can be quite valuable before you set off on your own game.

Anyhow, I'll stop nagging you and back to the modeling!

# 55 22-11-2011 , 02:15 PM
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Good thing to be stubborn, persistence will get the job done user added image And you don't need to be online all the time, nothing would get done if that was the case, you get assigned a portion of a project like animating a sequence or modeling a specific character. I mentioned these types of projects because they would give you the opportunity to work with senior artists and draw from their experience which can be quite valuable before you set off on your own game.

Anyhow, I'll stop nagging you and back to the modeling!

Yeah I understand that it is an opportunity to learn from professionals, but getting assigned something would probably also mean working with a deadline, which I am not absolutely sure I can meet and I'd disappoint if I'd fail. Whereas in my own project, I won't disappoint anyone if I fail to meet the deadline.

Speaking of deadline, I wonder how fast I can make a Dynamic system scene of tennis... Had that thought yesterday of making a short animation with that since I once made a baseball bat hitting a ball so in this case it would be 2 racquets, 1 ball, 1 table and a net + gravity and colliders. From what I've seen, the path of the ball is easily predictable and can be influenced by wind (also was fun using this to blow a group of spheres away). I might post that if not today maybe tomorrow but I don't know in what section of the forum.

Good luck with your work. X)

# 56 22-11-2011 , 09:16 PM
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I don't know where to post this so I'll just post it here. This is what I've been goofing around with today. I was just testing the dynamics system with passive/active colliders. Worked smooth... up until a point where an animation glitch got in the way. And I thought I fixed that but it came back once I've recorded the animation. Oh well, this test served its purpose.
I might need to get a better avi compressing software though. VideoPad ruined the quality.
Maya Ping Pong Test.avi - YouTube
Work time total: approx 7 hours (with pauses though to chat / eat). What took the most time: setting the racquets to hit the ball properly. Sometimes they kept missing, other times more glitches happened. The full animation was 150 frames, but when I've rendered it, the glitch came back and the ball sank into the desk again.

# 57 22-11-2011 , 09:28 PM
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I think you need to increase a number to fix that... can't recall what attribute specifically, but most times increasing a number will fix things. Seriously though, it has to do with the frequency or resolution of the collision testing.

# 58 22-11-2011 , 09:40 PM
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I think you need to increase a number to fix that... can't recall what attribute specifically, but most times increasing a number will fix things. Seriously though, it has to do with the frequency or resolution of the collision testing.

This glitch happened randomly though and seemed to be depending on the red racquet's position in order to hit the table. The 2 racquets + table and floor are set as a single passive collider, ball is active. In the initial 150 frames, the ball always hit the table, but then it avoided the red racquet so I moved that racquet up so that the ball will bounce right into it... But it didn't even bounce off the table anymore. (should have tested it before rendering)

Another glitch or maybe I'm doing something wrong: Once animation is recorded, the keyframe of the passive collider (racquet) will not be deleted even if I select delete from the frame line's menu. The red line disappears, but the animation stays.

I just realized a funny thing which drags fail on my part: I made the wrong kind of rackets for table tennis/ping pong. X_X


Last edited by SilverFeather; 22-11-2011 at 11:40 PM.
# 59 23-11-2011 , 12:26 AM
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Possible lead

Can't verify on the end of Maya but in C4D I have to increase the dynamics iterations to give a better result otherwise chains won't react properly and things bounce on the floor when coming to a stop. I am sure that there is something much like this in the controls. I would research the keywords of "maya dynamics iterations."

# 60 23-11-2011 , 12:38 AM
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Check the collision tolerance and the step size in the attributes for the rigidSolver.

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